Citizen journalist LoyarBurokker Pamela Lim was stopped by the police while on the road. Unhappy with the their conduct she whipped out her phone and started video recording the two police officers. How did the police react? Watch it here @ LoyarBurok.com via our YouTube channel WayangLoyarBurok.
What really happens when the police stops a woman and the woman whips out a camera to film them?
Can the police take your I.C. and not give it back? Were they threatening and intimidating me?
Watch to find out and give your comments.
LB: If you have trouble playing the video here, or would like to see more LoyarBurok videos, please go to our YouTube channel @ WayangLoyarBurok.
Pamela Lim is driven by her fervent spirit for adventure, her inquisitive nature for wildlife and her intrinsic values for doing the right thing. As a result, she has been “dipped” in hot soup and cool oceans alike. She makes a living by teaching others to live their dreams through diving while documenting memories through photography from the travel trade; at times, sending her out to recce currents and paths less trodden. With God all things are possible. Follow her tweets @pummkin.
seorang warganegara tidak bolih berbahasa kebangsaan.berlagak sombong terhadap polis yang mejalankan tugas..yang mengugut ialah dia bukan polis.saya hairan mengapa polis itu tidak menahan dia..mengapa polis takut kepada dia.saya ingin nasihatkan kepada polis jangan takut pada orang macam ni.DIA TIDAK ADA HAK AMBIL GAMBAR ORANG LAIN.
Dear Ms. Pamela, in my opinion, it is your action of recording them that instigated the whole episode. You are the one who intimidated them first. That is no way to treat our Officers of the LAW. Your 'commentary' about knowing your rights were frankly very arrogant in nature, very condescending. You insulted the very laws of our nation by insulting the very men we entrust our protection and security upon… then you try to make a media circus out of the it hoping that everyone will rally behind you. Well, your brilliant 'photo journalism' only proves your guilt. I am behind the Boys in Blue featured in this video.
Respectfully,
Pope
so hilarious when she said "BYE BYE BYE"
Anyone who got stopped by the Msia police knew they are all using the same trick to intimidate UNLUCKY Victim like Pam.
It happens Daily and Constantly. If they do not get their money for their Bribe. Next step is to withhold ur IC n Driver Lic.
If you still Refuse to bribe them and ask for your Saman. They will ask u go back to Station with them! Just to frighten you. They have no authority to do so because you are not under arrest. And with holding / consficating your IC and DL is total Bull Shit. I have personally withness and experienced our Useless police force pulling stuns like that too many times.
GOOD JOB PAM!
Dr Pang HC, why do you make excuses for unprofessional behaviour of the police? They are (supposed to be) professionals and are (hopefully) trained to deal with the public in whatever mood they are in. Even the people at the government office service counters can do a better job in diffusing any fiery situation.
Language is no excuse because it's clear that both officers appeared able to comprehend her queries and intentions. The older officer just could not comprehend that Pam won't play by his rules.
The police have no right to withhold her IC and driver's license. There is no excuse for this theft. There is no justification to withhold these because they do not form part of any evidence of any crime nor are they illegal items nor are they items which pose a danger to the public.
She can scribble all she wants on the summon as long as she signs it and accept it, that's her problem. They also not issue the summon and deem her contesting the summon and let it be settled in court.
Time delaying tactics (dilly-dallying with execution of their task) is frowned upon because it can mean baiting for a bribe. It's a quick task of stopping her, check her details on the national database, advice her then issue the summon.
There is no need for this extended power play to show who is boss, that's intimidation. The younger chap just kept aside and that's ok though quite a wimp. But the older guy must put her in her place, eh?
Why, oh why do so many Malaysians happily put up with this crap? Why do many Malaysians pay respect to unprofessional behaviour?
If Pamela can argue that she had the right to capture the cops on video, they too had the right to refuse to be filmed.
Pamela did the wrong thing by challenging the authority of the police by scribbling on the summons. All she had to do was to sign the summons, but she did not have the right to scribble anything on the summons.
The cops are asking her to follow them to the station because she's challenging their authority and being difficult. In some countries, she'd have been arrested and taken to the station for this kind of belligerent attitude.
Pamela also taunted them with her bahaviour …pretending to be scared, but at the same time saying "bye" a couple of times in an arrogant manner before winding down her window.
The cops, on the other hand, didn't know how to handle the situation. Sometimes, all it takes, is a little understanding and politeness (from both parties) to deal effectively with a difficult situation.
This bitch is so irritating. If i was the cops i'd have pulled her out by her hair and dragged her on the road all the way back to her the station..
LoyarBurokker,
If you realised, i used the word 'allegedly' in the 1st para.
I cannot help but to agree with you that the court of law will decide if she had committed an offence should the matter is brought to the Court.
Further, IMHO, this video has got nothing to do with whether she committed an offence. The reason why this video is recorded, IMHO again, is to show that the police had, allegedly, intimidated the author.
In all fairness, LoyarBurokker, they, the police, are not unsure of themselves but this is more of their inability to communicate with the author.
I am in the agreement with one or two commentators that the police force and the civil servants have to buck up English but coming back to my comment, my conclusion would be that not all of them are bad and i do not see any intimidation from the part of these two rank and file officers.
Pamela, first and foremost How the hell are you? From the sound of your voice I know we know each other hahahaha. Anyway, whipping out your handphone and recording the whole episode must have caught these police personnel off guard. I am not one to accuse without evidence so whether or not these guys were looking for 'duit kopi' is unknown. However, if they had nothing to hide why feel defensive about the recording? Why the bad attitude toward a civilian/rakyat who pays her taxes which in turns pays their salary? If Pamela had commited a traffic offense then issue the summon and be done with it. What is the basis of asking Pamela to follow them to the 'balai'? Last but not least all police personnel must have their service number in clear sight as well as their name. How come these two aren't dressed correctly ie. being without their serial numbers shown or pinned? Let us all take heed to what has happened to Pamela and start recording with the use of our hand phones whenever we get stopped by the police. I for one will do it as evidence if I need to make a report myself!!!
Who is rude again? Please think aabout what you are saying. It does not matter whether Pam committed an offence or not. It is irrelevant if she did commit an offence because the final arbiter is the courts. She did not ask the police NOT to issue the summons on the contrary to do so.
The vide shows how unprofessional the police are; how unsure of themselves they are; how childish they seem to be – and this scares the daylights of all rational Malaysians. You expect these "professionals" to enforce the laws and protect us?
Women in the car is wrong. If police just issue a summon, why takes photo?. Some vulgar word will come out from anybody mouth once they are provoked.
Just sign the summon and go..
Thorougly understand law alone, is not enough for you to have comfortable life.
Why poke the bee nest?
The first 50 secs of the video will tell us that the author had allegedly committed an offence by using her hp.
After watching this video twice, I do not see where the intimidation comes from.
It would be good if the author had recorded it from the start to show what prompted her to record this video.
I, personally, do not think that in any way that these police have been rude to her nor intimidating to her. Did they hint to be bribed? what did they do?
It is clear that the police are not competent in speaking English whilst on the other hand, it appears that the author can speak decent BM, why can't you converse with them in BM albeit the limitations?
I do believe that it is the author's right to record this incident but I still cannot justify on what terms are these police being intimidating/rude to her.
It is sad to say indeed there are bad apples in the police force of Msia but i sincerely believe that not all of them are like that, contrary to the popular belief.
I am in the opinion that with all the bad media on the police force, in a way, this has hindered them from enforcing the law efficiently. Of course it is a good thing to educate the public on their rights but we do not want to see misuse the rights enshrined in the Fed Consti whenever they are being stopped/investigated by the law enforcement agencies, do we?
I am all for protecting the members of the public with the FC given rights but to misuse it is another issue at hand.
She doesn't contest the summon thus the summon should be issued.
The police have no right to withhold another person's IC and driver's license. These items are for identification purposes only, not as ransom to get her to comply with their demands. This is deemed as theft because she clearly wanted the items back.
She is not under arrest thus doesn't have to follow anyone to the police station.
The police has no right to obstruct her path because she is not under arrest nor is she a wanted person who needs arresting nor is the path under restriction.
There is definite police intimidation as both behaved in ways unprofessional and Rachmat demanded compliance to actions that he does not have power to do so.
And BT is wrong. I have dealt with the UK police and they have never withheld any of my personal items (I have to give consent for the police officer to hold my driver's license as all they needed was for me to hold it while they look at it) nor do they ask anyone to follow them to the police station. It's within the UK law that they can only compel an arrested person to go to the police station. If the police wants you to report at a police station, you can do that in your own time. Perhaps BT should deal with the police in other modern Western countries first.
Mikhael you can sue the police in USA if you are handcuffed for behaving similarly, especially if you have videoed it as evidence. A person can only be handcuffed if they are arrested. In USA they must inform you of the charge as soon as practicable or else every minute of it is deemed unlawful arrest (or false imprisonment). In this case, what is the possible charge(s) for Pam? Obstruction of justice doesn't apply because justice is dispensed as soon as the summon is issued and the delay of issuing it here is obstruction carried out by the police, not Pam.
Why do some Malaysians happily put up with blatant infringement of their rights?
I think Miss Pamela is WRONG.Can she do this in US,Australia,Uk etc.I doubt so .
And to those whose comments are against Pam's actions do consider this:
1. The police is the law enforcement authority with many powers and even weapons to be used for the right purposes. Their ability to "legally" make you or force you into doing something is enormous. They represent the State. That's why Constitutions always give people rights to be enforced against the police (i.e. the State).
2. When a person has so much powers to be used wantonly; and seeing and reading about the horror stories of the police while also experiencing them myself – it is not too much for them to be proper about the search and summon procedure. It is crazy for them to act that way even under pressure. They are the ones with so much power!
3. The police could have just issued the summons and be off with it. It does not appear to be at all a serious crime I suspect from the video clip.
4. I hope when any of you are in that situation, please dont take the easy way out and bribe and get away with it. I hope you will stand your ground and take the summons but demand the proper respect you ought to receive from the law enforcement agencies who are bound to do their job properly.
Both sides are in the wrong here.
I am not a fan of the Malaysian police force and frankly speaking, my opinion of them is lower than that of a Filipino laborer from Pulau Gaya.
Nevertheless, some of the commentators are correct here in the sense that much conflict arose because the driver here insisted on using above average English instead of the national language.
The scribbling on the summons was highly uncalled for and served only to provoke the two men further. To the average viewer, it might appear that the whole scenario was engineered by the driver into the fracas it became.
As samseng and as rempit as our Malaysian cops are, some can usually be brought to a level of compromise and understanding when the offender humbles oneself and pleads for a second chance.
The two cops here are obviously lowly educated and poorly trained. As law enforcers, they are required to conduct themselves professionally even when provoked. Their mannerisms and choice of words fall short of any standards but then again, how many of us can hold our peace when provoked in such a way?
The two cops had picked the wrong woman to intimidate.
Verdict: The cops lost! They got into unnecessary conversation, and in the end, then embarrassed themselves. Smarten up bang…buat malu polis aje.
This guy's are our officers,i think they need to be respected.Dont be arrogant just because of our overall perceptions.
I have been "caught" a few times by policemen where I have done no wrong. I had to stand very firm, kalau salah, bagi saman, but they go on and on and on. Why? they want $$$$$$.
I have even come across policemen without their serial numbers? Are they real cops? Going to court? Too much of a hassle.
A few times, the policemen would just let me go knowing that I will not give them duit kopi.
Pam, whatever you did in the video, it might not be perfect, but it is a good lesson for all of us and the police who watch this.
We can all use this video to improve ourselves and thanks for your contribution.
Pam, we are with you.
You did nothing wrong except that you were firm – perhaps too firm (and that's not a bad thing with "legal pirates") with the authorities. You did the right thing to document the incident. There is no law which prohibits filming of any incident not least a stop-and-summon procedure.
Many may question what you scribbled on the summons but there is again no law which prohibits documenting your protest on the summons. People who dont agree with the summons may even choose not to sign it. If you care to receive and write on the summons then if it goes to court it is for the court to evaluate it. It's astounding that the officer is "crying" like he lost valuable milk for you to have written on his summons.
And if you did not document it or stand your ground, they would probably have asked for or done other "illegal" things. Your actions were necessary and wholly proportionate to the issue at hand.
Keep LoyarBurokking!
Good Job,
Pamela
This lady is trying to paint a bad image on police who are trying to carry out their duties. this is a very bad example to general public. She had bad intentions
Hi Pamela,
Today i learn something,people who claim that they are good citizen is just wayang kulit or what.I don't know how to justify because we were not in the scene.The Police officer also our Citizen!As a journalist,i feel that you fail to be fair to people in uniform.If we to need change the bad perception about our Police Force, We as a public need to be polished first.Maybe you have might have bad experience with police before,are you? You know why the officer get angry because you are using Queen's English and you know pretty well that over the years our Government policy deprived them to talk or understand a simple English.
You have the rights to defend your argument but you must know where and when.But not after commit an offense and start to create a unpleasant situation is not welcome by any good citizen.
You are brave for wrong reason! I am really feel embarrassed as a Malaysian who like to fight for justice.2X5 AND 5X2.
I AM NOT BELONG TO ANY POLITICAL GROUP OR A PARTISAN BUT A SILENT MAJORITY.
I am extremely sorry to give my peace of mind to you and my humble request to that two Police officer SABAR DALAM MENUNAIKAN TUGAS!Jangan marah Pak!So my beloved citizen please stop bashing the two police officer.Don't be too emotion!
The lance corporal without a police badge and also a Police number tag. The other guy keeps holding a book to cover his number tag on his right. Looks like crooks trying for rasuah. Lots of them in JB. I am not sure but does that looks like an FRU cloth? Also they were not on normal police white helmet!.
The policemen should not bother about the recording if they have nothing to hid. If they are doing their job, then no need to talk too much, just issue the summon and go.
That's it.
Some of you commented that Policemen got no time to learn English and they don't understand English. You must not excuse them. Engish is a universal language and since they are in public service and they are paid to do their job using our tax money, they must understand English. What if the offender is a tourist or orang putih. We don't expect foreigners to speak B.M. The polis must understand English not the other way round. And some of you suggest just to follow the polis to the polis station. Don't do that and don't be so naive. You don't have to follow them to polis station. You can get raped and robbed. There are already quite a number of such cases. There is nothing wrong to video record them just in case they ask for bribe and did something nasty like hitting you or using a weapon to point at you or like not giving you back your I.C. then this is the proof otherwise you have no proof. Because you are recording them, they dare not do something drastic. Also there is nothing wrong to tell them that you will report them otherwise how to get back your I.C. and driving license.
If you want your I.C. back, you have to frightened them a bit. And I see that it is working as they did give back the I.C. and driving license. Remember the policemen are here to serve us because their salaries are from us, the taxpayers. They are not our masters but our public servants, to serve the public.
In all frankness, this video best illustrates what should have been dealt to Pamela on that fine day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msiCx7SXRFo
Problem with Malaysian society today is that there are too many snot-nosed little upstarts who think they are above the law and/or common decency.
Hi.
I think what you are doing is very wrong. They are just doing their job. If this were to happen in the US.. you be handcuff. You are not allowed to write anything on the Police note book. Give respect and you will get respect.
Thanks
these are police not traffic police. they have no right to issue traffic summons. but they have power to detain (for suspected criminals). just demand to be issued your summons and nothing else. they will just go away, coz they have nothing to issue out. experience that many times, they just want to make the extra haram ringgit, ignore them and demand your summons.
Yes but she have the guts to stand up for her rights and not following the police to police station whereas most of the ppl here will beg "sorry bang minta tolong" and that is when our police officer thinks we are their atm machine.
gum2: you are obviously malaysian educated? such low grade thoughts
I think this lady can avoid misunderstanding if she speaks good bahasa malaysia. Not all policemen have good grasp of English. I dont sympathise with the police – they should just give the summon & avoid dilly-dallying. Don't blame her for recording it, this is good feedback for the PDRM.
this is a clear case of jumping the gun well ahead of time. just because you know what the rules are it does not mean the police don't. if you follow rules you would have just signed the summon instead of putting your opinions on there. you call yourself a rakyat and create this "i've been victimised" scenario. if you think nothing of malaysian police what gives you the right to think highly of yourself?
hi pamela,
personally, i dont think you have respect for police officers. in australia, u would have been cuffed for being rude
Haha.
Of course, this is a funny video. Those poor folks of course don't speak flawless English and can't understand what "intimidating" is.
The central question here is, you intruded other's people privacy by filming them and saying that it's your right as a civilian to shoot whoever you want to shoot.
If somebody's filming me out of my consent, I will protect my privacy's right of being civilian.
The Malaysian police force has its fair share of baggage no doubt, but I dare Pamela, and all you race-baiting PDRM-bashers to pull this stunt in any other country….Western, Eastern, developed, third-world, or otherwise. Even in the most liberal of US cities, the likes of Pamela would have got her ass tased and arrested before she can scream "intimidation" in a wannabe fake Western accent.
We should learn the rights of our own and i think pam sets a good example but she went across the border when she scribble on the book.
If all the citizens can learn what pam is trying to tell us then our pdrm wont be so arrogant.
Whats wrong with u guys there trying to protect and are afraid of the police makes the police today so daring to bully the citizens.
Dont u guys noticed the police are way too impolite and they are all out to demand money from us and its all because of u guys who have just settle by bribing and think its correct to avoid all the hassle.
YES its because of what u ppl have done that our police are so spoilt and daring. Pls start learning whats your right to protect yourself and dun be intimidated by our police then start complaining how the police can do everything at the end of the day.
And seriously i am very surprised how uneducated ppl can be looking on the comments up there such as hope this lady get bullied by rempit. Did she even offend u, she is just trying to tell the police "us" citizens arent someone u can just easily bully and get away with. Whats wrong with that.
This lady deserves respect but ended up getting cursed. Thx to so many ppl trying to act smart.
i'll keep this short,
1) you do not need any consent to take anyone's photo or filming anyone in a 'public place'. But recently, some countries have passed certain 'anti-terrorism acts' to forbid that but this is again questionable an contestable. But this is irrelevant since there is no such law in MAL. So, keep shooting.
2) Do not sign the summon if you disagree on the charge(s). Be prepare to contest in the court if need be. The police will have your address and they will send to you instead, but do not sign.
3) it's plain obvious tht the conduct of these 2 policemen was way below the acceptable standard. If they dun know this, then more ppl should start filming to remind their chief.
Keep shooting ppl.
This is clearly NOT police intimidation. This is police INTIMIDATED!
Now I know why people call lawyers…LOYARBUROK!!!
If I were the lady,I just slap both of them with RM3.00 and solve all the problems.Our cops are hungry-lah !
Question? Why did you start videoing? When did you decided that this ought to be videoed? The moment they stopped you? What was the offense anyway? Were you aware of the offense?
as long as there's no law against taking a video, what's the big deal?
i was stopped by 2 so-called Poliss Diraja on motorbikes and told that I was using a handphone without a handsfree when I wasn't even holding a hnadphone at all!!! and they just kept on repeating and repeatingg and refused to accept that i wasn't using one and even when I showed them that i had a handsfree unit fixed on the dashboard, they still went on and on…..that's classic behaviour for our Msian Polis when they have evry intention of asking for a bribe to let 'innoncent' victims go!!!
intimidation, you bet!! rakyat mana?!
I m not sure about the law over here by taking pic of enforcement officer with uniform, try that in country like in Uk or US, see whether they will drag u to police station or not.. All actually small petty matter, the office was not at pro attitude and the lady driver should just accept the summon if she had done wrong..
I think the “handsfree speaker” is not considered “handsfree” if you are holding the phone as you mentioned (i guess let the court decide):
“I maintained that my phone was on the handsfree speaker & I was holding the phone at a distance as I spoke but they kept saying that I did not use the handsfree.”
in UK last year its considered a crime to take and spread pictures of police/armed forces… http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/7888301.stm
see what happens now?…anyone can copy and imitate police in their uniforms…
why the need to scribble the ticket? pissed?….why didnt you just show what did you wrote on the summon tiket?…
Yes, the police may need to improve in the knowledge on law and communication, however, they are still junior officers judging from the sleeve rank. I guess both of you and the police officers (if they are genuine), need to resolve on attitude issues.
i’ve encounter 1 or 2 worse policeman than this, but a little act and words of politeness and a smile makes everything runs smoothly, some of which just gave me a warning. Everybody have a good day. If they want bribe, just say you prefer the summon. Bribe will create more bribes. Cut the supply, the demand will slowly reduced.
i know you’re a brave lady, but doing like this aint gonna help anybody. Maybe you can file a complaint to the police station and tell them what to improve for a start.
Two answers:
1: This lady is more stubborn than an average lady.
Did she wrote something on the summone, if she did then she is wrong.
2: The two cops are less intelligent than an average man.
Cop said you cannot take video on police because his uniform is government property. Look around us, the road, the street lamps, the street dustbins, the drains, the government buildings, even the street trees/plants … all belong to the government …. so ?
Frankly speaking taking a video is nothing, in many developed nation the police took video recording of themselve during summoning, during interrogating , during arresting a suspect so as to prove they (cops) did not abuse the law.
I wonder why our cops are 'camera shy '?
People,people,
this is bolehland.Whrer the policw sre king.
Richard Ng, what do you mean when you say negotiate?
Do you mean what I think you mean?
No "negotiating" is the only way to cut corruption in the
police force.It's bad enough already.
I worry for my own 24year old daughter on Malaysian streets.
Do you have sons or daughters who've been stopped for one
reason or other or even none at all.
My hats off to you loyarburok.
This lady is a real joker as well…both actually at fault. If done wrong accept the summons, why is she keep on recording and try to heat up the anger of the police office. Really funny….
I am surprised by the number of police sympathisers that have commented so far. These police have acted very unprofessionally and it seems that many do act this way. They should have not cared that they were being filmed because they should have been acting completely within the law, obviously they weren't as they were using their position of power to intimidate. It is a shame that a person that tries to stand up for their rights and fight a possible case of corruption is now being victimised further by all those making horrible remarks. The police should have smiled and simply issued the summons and moved on to their next victim, oh I mean target, ah that should be traffic offender.
5. scribble on the summon – can? can not? illegal?
eh, what if the cop made a mistake in the summon? if the summon said you have parang or gun in the back seat- do you sign or not?
6. filming without consent? from some previous comment, do you really think anyone would consent? – if you are being snatch thief do you really need to check if the other person allow you to film it? crazy, actually it is right to film it, it is how you use the recording after that need consideration. the media did it all the time.