If we’re okay with homosexuality, does that mean we’re also cool with incest?

RainbowTriangleDisclaimer: For the purpose of this article, all acts discussed are done by mutual consent.

My surname is fairly common. In fact Wikipedia ranks my family name as the most used Chinese surname in the world. To further exaggerate my point, the Han Chinese ethnicity is also the largest single ethnic group in the world.

This means the probability of me landing a missus of the same surname is higher than rain falling on a cloudy day. If that were to happen, I can assure you my grandparents will weep shamelessly in their graves.

The prohibition of such a unity stems from one point of interest.


Before we can even begin to dissect the very idea of incest, let us first take a look at homosexuality.

This comparison is essential because I consider both ‘situations’ somewhat similar in notion. Okay, before the LBGT community decides to chainsaw my head off, bear in mind that I’m not here to ruffle any feathers so let’s carry on with an open mind, shall we?

Let’s talk about the similarities between the two.

1) Society considers them taboo.
2) Society deems them abnormal.
3) Religion forbids them.
4) Laws of men, have at one point or another, stated them to be illegal.

Society has in recent times been kinder to homosexuals. There are now gay marriages, gay cities, gay bars, gay social sites, gay flags and even gay parents.  Those who happen to fall in love with their brothers or sisters aren’t so lucky.

To drive home my point, let’s take a look at Germany.  They are one of the most progressive nations on the issues of LBGT, recognizing homosexuals from as early as 1968 and yet, incest is still a crime in Germany.

I know plenty of LBGT activists, but I’ve never heard of an incest activist. While browsing through Wikipedia, I got acquainted with Patrick Stuebing and his struggle for the right to love.

Patrick fell in love with his biological sister, whom he was separated from at birth. For this incestual relationship, he was imprisoned for 2 years.

The Guardian, realizing the need for public awareness on this, interviewed incest couples around the globe for an article. According to one participant:

“You can’t help who you fall in love with, it just happens. I fell in love with my sister and I’m not ashamed … I only feel sorry for my mom and dad, I wish they could be happy for us. We love each other. It’s nothing like some old man who tries to fuck his three-year-old, that’s evil and disgusting … Of course we’re consenting, that’s the most important thing. We’re not fucking perverts. What we have is the most beautiful thing in the world.”

Now if you were to ask me that 10 billion dollar question – “What would I do if my son and daughter had a relationship?”

The answer is: “Crap, I don’t know”

If you were to ask me what if my kid’s gay, and I’d tell you in a heart beat that it’s all good.

I don’t understand it myself. I mean: ask anyone who opposes homosexuality and they would tell you it’s because it’s not natural. That God did not intend for this to happen.

What about incest then?

The union of a man and a woman, even if they come from the same lineage definitely makes more sense than 2 men bonking each other. Yet, the idea of incest invokes horror beyond even those of homophobics.

Why is that so?

Religion forbids it and yet it is said that Eve was made from the rib bone of Adam. How is that really any different from a brother and sister sharing the same blood/womb?

The Bible (and other religious texts) propagate that Adam and Eve were the first two persons in the world. Their children would have to cross-breed with each other before humanity could reach the 7 billion mark it is today. Yet in the book of Leviticus, incest is declared an abomination.

Outright hypocrisy isn’t it?

Say you’re not religious, and you’re a subscriber of Darwinism. Wouldn’t evolution and natural selection be an automatic catalyst for incestual behavior?

What about the descendants of the royal families of Graeco-Roman Egyptians? The royals were only permitted to marry within the family and after hundreds of years, the blood of such marriages would have been in the veins of millions of modern Egyptians.

Purists would argue that incest is illegal because a child born out of such a union will most likely lead to congenital birth defects. I looked it up and that is true.

So what? That’s easy to remedy.

Enact a law. Make it a pre-requisite that all incest couples undergo sterilization before marriage.

And so that’s how it is.

I admit that I’m still not completely open to the idea of incest. But I’m trying to get there.

Love is love. If you’re not hurting anyone, then who am I or anyone else to tell you how you should lead your life?

So to all LBGT activists, maybe it’s a good time to add another alphabet to the acronym.

Let’s call it LBGTI.

Then you can consider yourselves a true champion of human rights.

For whatever it’s worth, Vern does not have a sister and has never found his mother particularly attractive in that way. He’d have no hesitations to date a fellow Lee however.

29 replies on “Okay, I’m In Love With My Sister. So What?”

  1. Im 20 y.o, i have 2 younger sis at 18,15 y.o and 1 older sis 32 y.o.. idk how i can fall in love with my 32 y.o sis. Its so hard for me, im so hurt when i know she out to date with other guy. Im sacrifire for 6 years because of this feeling… what should i do?

  2. I suggest that you should stop writing articles if you only have a superficial understanding of the issue and equipped only with your 'perspectives'.

    First of all, to equate homosexuality with incest would be to open a can of worms. Well, in line with this, let us ALL equate it with other forms of forbidden love: paedophiles, zoolophiles, necrophiles would all crown you as their champions.

    After all, love is love, right?

    There is a fine distinction between homosexuality and the other forms of love that I have described above. Homosexuality, in my opinion is not crime, nor is it a sin. It involves so much more than a sense of love. the problem with Homosexuality is that it is always equated to promiscuity, which unfortunately leads to STD and other social stigmas that inevitably comes with it. and this deranged view on homosexuality clearly stems from a better lack of judgment and a misguided information on it.

    How is this different from incest? Incest is different, as you hv stated, because of the scientific proof of the damage it causes. There is no 'what-ifs'. And even if an offspring, from some godly miracle survives this trait, there still is chance for a recessive gene to survive.

    The problem with STD is self control, or the lack of it. That, can be overcome. What is scientifically proven over and over again cannot.

    And what is this nonsense about sterilizing them before they get married. WHAT. THE FUCK. What is the point of them starting a family in the first place? What you call a remedy, i call it a ridiculous idea. let us ALL sterilize people who have disease that can be inherited.

    And this nonsense about the royal family doing it? It comes from the traditional belief that their blood should remain pure. If you read Harry Potter, it explains why they have a concern for 'pure bloods' and 'half bloods', and nothing to do with the great of idea of love.

    So. will you be forming your LGBTIPZN society then?> Let me know where to sit back and laugh at the idea.

  3. Incest does not only affect the lives of two persons.

    People tend to do stuff when they're allowed to.

    When (conservatively) 20% of the population fuck their sisters, you're going to have a generation of retards coming your way.

    20% of pop with dysfunctional families, work that with crime rates and rate of illiteracy.

    You figure out the rest.

  4. Brandon,

    It cannot be that society is unaffected by the choice of incestuous couples who may birth a child with defects. If they dump the kid, the kid may be taken in by a shelter and the kid will have special needs. These special needs will cost money to fulfill and most likely donations will be required from someone. imagine if our system is flooded with such kids, the kind of burden they will inadvertently cause for society. If the kid turns out normal, he/she will face ridicule from a society largely unaccustomed to incest. He/she will also have trouble understanding the convoluted relationship he/she has with her parents – one of whom is either also an uncle or aunt. Like I said, we can't all get overexcited about "rights" to a point that anything goes. Self-restraint is sometimes good for the soul.

  5. "That being said, this is a brainfart of explosive proportions" – Leroy. LOL. This is so true.

    Consent is indeed the key. However, that being said, once the government ie the society starts to give consent to the people to involve themselves in incestuous relationships, as Aerie Rahman said, "it breaks down the core concept of family". The relationship between members of the family becomes so convoluted that you cannot simply regard them as brothers, sisters, father and mother. Once consent is given, people will start seeing the possibility of engaging in sexual relations with their family members. Once the barrier is broken down, would you look at your sister the same way when she walks the short distance between the bathroom and her room with only a swath of towel around her body?

    In my opinion, once you are given consent to do so, most would tend to so. When talking about incest, you have to talk about family. When you want to legalize incest, you are permitting the people to change the lens through which they are looking at their family members. Once people start embracing the idea of incestuous relationship, and parents/society start to give idea of incest to their kids, we have to ask ourselves, whether the lens through which the kids are looking at their family members are truly borne out of their consent.

    Personally, I think the line has to be drawn at incestuous relationship. It just screws up the whole concept of family. I like loving my family merely as family. It's a confusing world and having your family members as potential sexual partners just adds up to the problem.

  6. Incest should be legalized, but I completely disagree with the mandatory sterilization. If an incestuous couple wants to deal with the possibility of having a child with problems, then it's their choice, not society's.

  7. Alright, I only speak on the incestuous point. I think I do agree with the point put on by Muhamed Noor Firdaus – "this is about fulfilling one lust desire…and love is not about sexual all the time".

    I do love my family members, but it would be a different kind of love, one that is outside the ambit of lust which usually leads to a wanting of a sexual relationship.

    I mean there are different types of love, and perhaps if i do say that i love my sister, it would be more of a supportive, caring type of love – Storge love as the Greeks deemed it – that kind of family affection which is naturally found in a family relationship. Now, if it transcends into sexual love (Eros), then perhaps something is wrong somewhere (religious views aside even).

    So, if I am correct that the post views love on a sexual basis, then I suppose, playing the devil's advocate, how far can we take this? If a father loves his child, in the same sexual manner, would it not then be perverse? And then when do we draw the line? I don't have any answers to this, but my view and perhaps it could only be mine alone, there is always a danger in these things. :) and perhaps, i would deem it as perverse.

    Ok, just my two cents worth. Thanks.

  8. Well, he does make a good point, fundamentally speaking. If we argue for the freedom to love, we shouldn’t be picking and choosing who’s allowed to love whom. That shouldn’t suggest we’re not allowed to find things icky. If you find homosexual acts icky, then don’t do it. If you find incestous acts icky, then don’t do it. Situations like these only become sticky when abuse comes into the picture for everyone of L, G, B, T, I and yes, even S persuasions. Many (I’m not saying all) cases of incest in this country is reported as that of an elder person forcing themselves onto a minor. Ha! How’s that for another parameter for you, the pedarast.

    Methinks one of the better ways to think about this issue is as such: if A wants to be with B and B wants to be with A, then C, D, E and the rest of the world should have nothing to say about it. Consent is key.

    That being said, this is a brainfart of explosive proportions. I’d like to think on this awhile. Good piece to jog the mind.

  9. It’s all about accountability. With freedom, comes responsibility. We can’t go around doing what we simply choose to do according to our desires all the time because sometimes our desires lead to unpleasant results. If we’re going to live with those results, fair enough. But what the results also bear on those close to us? Say an incestuous couple decides to consummate their relationship and they have a child. The child turns out on the wrong side of probability and has “defects”. Will the couple bear responsibility and look after the child well? (Same with a thalassemia couple) Love it anyhow? If the couple, knowing that their union may lead to such defects, decides to practise safe sex…we then turn to the issue of how the parents feel (if it’s a brother/sister thing or uncle/niece thing) or the father of mother (if it’s a parent-offspring thing). We all live interconnected on this planet so I feel it’s important that we DO give a bit of a toss who we hurt in our lifetime. We don’t need to please everybody but doesn’t caring about those closest to us point to our humanity? In the day and age of “Me, me, me”, it’s hard to think about self-restraint with a grin on our face. We want it how we want it, and we want it now. But there’s courage in self-restraint. Courage isn’t just about standing up to others when the need arises but also standing up to ourselves when required.


  10. Dear Vern Lee,

    I beg to differ in some points. Foremost if you intend to equate being gay as stink as incest, I won't get there with you. Perhaps in sense of morality, I can respect that.

    Abeit the facts that you mentioned, gay is of no choice at times but not for incest. Never will. There is none for one to get straight to. Being gay is your right to exercise all you want but incest is a crime against humanity save and except thi 2 person understand the ramifications.

    You do not need no activist,after all we have left behind our primate counterpart and 101 of us against this affair.

  11. "Consenting adults also commit adultery,corruption, take drugs and buy and sell children. Consent is not licence to do bad and stupid things and destroy society. Grow up kid."

    Current position: Adultery should not be criminalized, taking drugs should not be criminalized. Children trafickking (can't spell) should be made illegal because the act harms the kid leih….Same to corruption. I pay my tax, you steal my tax money. Crime lo.

  12. Here is a copy and paste comment meant for me in one article at this website.


    “sexuality rights is our right to have mutually consensual sex with an adult.”

    What part of this do you not understand?

    Perhaps someone could enlighten me whether Seksualiti Merdeka applies for incest, since it seems to be fulfilling the syarat2 like "mutually consensual" and "with an adult". Or perhaps the word 'healthy' should be included somewhere.

    But wait, that will disqualify the G of LGBT.

  13. is this writer has any relationship with lady gaga??curious anyway.and better dont allow incest if not we'll create more probs and see human are turning back just to the old uncivilized era.God saves us.

  14. No to incest. I guess Guo the Biologist has explained it all why incest is not allowed.

    Say no to incest!

  15. What a waste of space. Don't knock religion because of your utter ignorance. It was incestuous relationships and inbreeding that nearly destroyed many royal families in history and some people fuck trees and animals and all kinds of objects in case you don't know so you should also add them to your LGBTI list just to be fair. Your ignorant ideas belong in the toilet bowl and you should have your head examined. Consenting adults also commit adultery,corruption, take drugs and buy and sell children. Consent is not licence to do bad and stupid things and destroy society. Grow up kid.

  16. @Aerie Rahman

    We can say no to whatever relationships we like (or don't), but is it necessary to criminalize sexual acts between ANY consenting adults?

  17. Dear Vern,

    I understand where you are coming from. Arguments for homosexuality can be applied for incestuous relationships, e.g. right to bodily autonomy, equality bla bla bla.

    However there is a difference and the difference is stark. Incestuous relationships involves the moral fabric of families and what familial ties stands for. Incestuous relationships breaks down the concept of a nuclear family, the bond between parent-children, brother and sister.

    It's hard to comprehend a family where you see a brother having sexual intercourse with his sister. Its beyond dysfunctional. Screws up how the family as a whole works. It distorts the roles that each members of family is expected to play. Seeing your younger sister as a family member, not as a sex object.

    Many sibling relationships involve considerable power. Much older siblings have power over younger siblings. In some instances, older siblings assume a pseudo-parental role in nurturing and caring for the younger.

    This is more important than other power relationship parallels, such as boss-worker, since in this one children can be groomed so that when they reach adulthood their impression of sexuality is distorted to the degree that they cannot but approve of incest.

    Say no to incest!

  18. Let's take it a bit further. Take a look at the treatment for infertile couples and the availability of sperm banking facilities. With the introduction of IVF ( Invitro fertilisation) and sperm donors the chances for a baby to be born out of "incest" is very real if left unregulated.

    The Medical world has proven that despite the triumphs and new discoveries there are boundaries which it will not cross even if it can be done. And natural selection is one of them. The threat of an inferior gene pool is far too real. The future of the human race is at stake.

    The same can be said for sexual liberation, there have to be limits set as to how far you can go. We need to draw a line somewhere and I feel this is where it should be done.

    Ethical and religous considerations aside. Just ask yourself this : Would you be able to live in a society where everyone is your brother or sister?

    Despite what is practiced in the West these are issues which we here in Malaysia are not ready for yet or ever will be.

  19. Interesting article. As a biologist, I'm obliged to point correct a line of yours about natural selection:

    "Wouldn’t evolution and natural selection be an automatic catalyst for incestual behavior?"

    No it does not. The reduced fitness of inbreeding would make incestious behaviour unviable. Inbreeding depression for example, is a phenomenon that occurs in a species which numbers dwindled to such low levels that the remaining member of the species have a high likelihood of inbreeding, which in turn reduces the fitness of their offsprings due to higher chances of inherited genetic disorders.

  20. Recently while in NZ i was watching a TV programme on incestuous couples. There was the usual brother sister couple. And there were the father daughter and mother son too! The programme was, well tastefully done and taking a sympathetic view. At the end of it, it just left me wondering!!

  21. "Purists would argue that incest is illegal because a child born out of such a union will most likely lead to congenital birth defects. I looked it up and that is true.

    So what? That’s easy to remedy.

    Enact a law. Make it a pre-requisite that all incest couples undergo sterilization before marriage."

    NO NO NO!!! I'm totally against the idea of compulsory sterilization. If the POSSIBILITY of giving birth to babies with congenital abnormalities alone is sufficient for compulsory sterilization, then at some point people are going to enforce it based on other reasons (E.G. RACE!!)…

    I have no problem with sex between consenting adults, but not the sterilization.

  22. Azira,

    "The truth is, the main reason behind the prohibition against incest is because as a result of inbreeding, when full blooded siblings procreate, the children has a higher percentage of having human congenital DNA defect. Scientific proof."

    Really? So what's your view on couples who are thalassemia carriers who choose to procreate? Do you have the same objection?

    With the advances in modern science, I can name all sorts of other "possibilities" that can be said to be "scientific proof" of a "higher percentage of having human congenital DNA defect."

  23. The 'religious' doctrines play on people's ignorance by saying that it is 'proof of God's wrath & punishment' or some nonsense. The truth is, the main reason behind the prohibition against incest is because as a result of inbreeding, when full blooded siblings procreate, the children has a higher percentage of having human congenital DNA defect. Scientific proof.

    Personally, there's over 6 billion human beings on the planet. Bound to be one or two you can click with. I'm not ok with incestuous relationships.

  24. this is about fulfilling one lust desire…and love is not about sexual all the time.

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