Connect The Dots: Conversion, Apostasy & Islam

Connect The Dots by Azira AzizCONNECT THE DOTS

Fed by misinformation. In conduct of an internal inquisition. In formation of an inquisitive mind. Like a child beholding a picture book, connecting the printed dots and filling the colours of my fascination with the beloved nation of mine.

A critical consideration about the practice of Islam in Malaysia with regards to conversion and apostasy written 2 years ago is not simply still relevant but timely.

Two years ago on 7 September 2008 on Facebook, I wrote this article which I think it is still relevant today:

O Mankind, We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you. (Quran 49:13)

Remember Moorthy? Remember R. Subashini? Remember Lina Joy?

Moorthy’s deceased body was the contention of dispute between his wife and his brother (or more profoundly whether he should be buried a Muslim or a Hindu). Subashini had her children removed from her when her husband converted and converted their children to Islam without her consent. Lina Joy was lost a case to officially change the status of her religion from Islam to Christianity to allow her to officially register her marriage with her husband.

All three were ordinary people living ordinary lives until by some weird twist of fate, they were put under a microscope, and received the furor of public opinion both in support or against them. They are but three of so many. Why is it so controversial? Well, because it involved parties of the dispute who either converted into Islam or was a Muslim and wanted to convert out of it, or conversion of her child without a spouse’s knowledge and consent.

As delicate and fragile the topic is, we cannot sweep this issue under the carpet and pretend that it doesn’t exist. These are topics that needs to be aired and discussed.

Many Malaysians got emotionally involved in these issues, and for good reason. While the majority of Muslims, particularly of the conservative sphere see it as a form of threat, to others, it is pure common sense. What sort of man converts into Islam and does not inform his family, particularly his loyal wife who took care of him for years after he was disabled? What kind of message are we sending about the rights of both parents who cannot be amicable with each other concerning their children?

Let’s examine the reason why we have institutionalised frameworks based on common law. It is loosely seen as a method of formalizing the society’s collectively held norms. For example, murder is deemed as a crime as it ends life. Life is held as sacred in many cultures. Because of the sanctity of life, punishment is devised to punish those who violate it, be it death by hanging, beheading, poison, etc. The framework is created in order to ensure that justice is done and no innocent man hang for a crime he did not commit.

Forgive me but I have always found organised religion questionable. I don’t like fat priests/clerics/imams, with fat purses, and preaching to starving or dying flocks. I don’t like two-faced people who pretend to be someone they’re not, feigning sincerity when personal motives run the show. I don’t like people who are ‘allowed’ to redefine a certain mazhab and deny others similar rights. It seems to me that people spend more and more time obsessing over portraying what is supposed to be true values that is ‘Christian’ or ‘Islamic’ or whatever your ideology is rather than actually doing it.

Every time these issues are raised, it’s a ‘sensitive’ issue. The last time there was a progressive effort by the Malaysian Bar Council to have a forum on conversion to Islam, they claimed that it is a threat towards Islam. Ragunath Kesavan had clearly stated that the forum was to address the woes of families, current realities that affect the citizens of Malaysia, not to question Article 121 or the status of Islam as the official religion of Malaysia in the Federal Constitution.

Unfortunately, in the name of ‘maintaining racial sensivities’ there will always be, without fail, a mob waiting outside the venue of each attempt for reasoned and rational discussion. Referring to the Quranic verse above, how the heck are you supposed to ‘know each other’ if we do not discuss? Aren’t your actions contradictory to the Quran??

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the difference of your languages and colors. Verily, in that are indeed signs for those who know. (Quran 30:22)

When there exist a problem, it means there is a need for a solution. How does one achieve the best possible solution? By research, by public discussions, by going on the ground to talk to and see those people who are having these problems. Simple. Common. Sense.

By the way, I respectfully believe that both parents’ permission should be consulted before any minor is converted into Islam, with signed black and white documents of consent. It’s highly unfair when a spouse, usually a husband, take off with the children, convert himself and the children into Islam to gain sole custody over the children (as opposed to automatic right of a mother under civil law). It raises some complications not to mention leaving open a leak, or floodgate for disgruntled husbands wanting to bypass the automatic custody rights of a wife in divorce.

As for Lina, she was born a Muslim, raised a Muslim, and yet she doesn’t have any affinity to the religion. I think it is more of an oppression to deny her the right to convert rather than following this:

There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing. (Quran 2:25)

If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe? (Quran Sûrah Yûnus: 99)

Personally I feel that these children should either (a) be maintained as the religion of which their parents married until age of consent or maturity, being 16 years of age the earliest, or (b) to have no religion until they hit 18, so that they could make a conscious and informed choice between their mother or father’s religion and Islam, considering the lock-down system that we have right now. Once you’re in, you’re in but no way out unless you do the popular thing which is migrate out of Malaysia.

I emphasise strongly that for my (b) choice to work, the children must be allowed to study both Islam and the alternative religion related to their parents. It is only fair for the children to be trained and knowledgeable in both religions for them to make an informed choice of the path that they will choose to walk for the rest of their lives as adults. Children they may be now, but later children grow up into adults. Adults choose.

Do you want to impress the injustice of Islam on their innocent countenance? All they’d understand from current practice is that Islam is how Daddy deny Mummy the right to raise them, learn their ‘before’ religion and make Mummy cry. Not exactly the ‘brotherhood’ and ‘submission’ concept that is the essence of Islam, no?

Interestingly enough, the Syariah Court had allowed a man’s petition to convert out of Islam, probably to show that they are doing something ‘fair’ for once. Jeffrey or Abdullah was a Christian who converted into Muslim, and then decided to convert back into Christianity and was allowed to do so on the basis that he never practiced Islam after he embraced it.

And tell my servants that they should speak in a most kindly manner (unto those who do not share their beliefs). Verily, Satan is always ready to stir up discord between men; for verily; Satan is man’s foe … Hence, We have not sent you (Unto men O Prophet) with power to determine their Faith. (Quran 17:53, 54)

So … whose will are we following actually?

Azira is a self-professed mongrel Malaysian. She hopes to have “Malay” and “non-Malay” relegated as a relic of the past sometime in the future. She is a UiTM graduate currently undergoing training to become a lawyer.

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Posts by Azira Aziz

This young lawyer harbours hope that one day Malaysians irrespective of ethnicity and religion have equal rights under the law, as we all are before the eyes of God. She is moving with UndiMsia! ( and will always be an Anak Bangsa Malaysia. (

Posted on 24 January 2011. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0.

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37 Responses to Connect The Dots: Conversion, Apostasy & Islam

  1. get a life. u people sibuk bash islam mcm takde kerja lain nak buat.

    • Malay Atheist

      Oh, tapi bila orang Melayu dan/atau Islam bash kepercayaan dan cara hidup orang lain kita semua tepuk tangan macam dikir barat?

  2. supir


    Saya sedih sebab artikel ini ditulis oleh seseorang yang beragama Islam. Saya berharap agar saudari Azira muhasabah diri, ucap kalimah syahadah, solat 5 waktu dan tutuplah aurat. Jaga akhlak dan percakapan kita sebagai seorang Muslim.

    dalam Islam jelas apa hukuman bagi orang murtad. Hukum Allah bukan boleh dibuat main apatah lagi dipersoalkan. Kita hanya HAMBA dan sebagai HAMBA, tugas kita adalah buat yang disuruh, tinggalkan apa yang dilarang. NO QUESTION ASKED..

    Apakata saudari Azira belajar pasal Undang-Undang Allah. Apa itu HUDUD dan mengapa Allah menyuruh kita melaksanakan HUDUD. Insya-Allah saudari akan nampak bahawa Islam itu INDAH.

    Pedulikan apa orang kafir kata tentang Islam. Semoga mereka mendapat hidayah dari Allah SWT dan dibukakan hati mereka untuk menerima Islam.

  3. Eric

    Secret filming at Muslim schools in Birmingham and Yorkshire shows pupils being beaten and 'taught Hindus drink cow p***'


    Read more:…

    he film shows children as young as six sitting on the floor of a large room in the mosque, one of the biggest in the country. The boys are hunched over wooden benches, rocking backwards and forwards as they rote-learn the Koran in Arabic. A man with a long white beard dressed in a traditional shalwar kameez – tunic and trousers – sits at the head of the class.

    'He slaps one boy, strikes another and kicks a third'

    Periodically he gets up and walks behind the boys. As he passes, the children appear to cower and watch him nervously. It soon becomes clear why.

    He unexpectedly raises his hand and slaps a young boy hard on the head. Moments later he strikes another. And then he kicks a third child.

    In just two days of filming in December 2010, the camera recorded the teacher hitting children as young as six or seven at least ten times, in less than three hours of lessons.

    From what we could see, every ¬single blow was pretty much unprovoked. We soon realised that the beatings were routine. The behaviour of the boys, the way they flinched and backed away when he approached, indicated that they were long-accustomed to being hit and kicked as they studied.

    In another incident an older boy, left in charge of a class while a teacher is out at prayer, picks up a bench and threatens to hit a younger boy with it.

    Read more:…

  4. Eric

    Indonesia's president said violent, hard-line groups should be disbanded after mobs set churches on fire and killed three members of a minority Islamic sect.

    The attacks raised concerns about escalating religious intolerance in the secular nation that has more than 220 million Muslims, most of whom are moderate.

    President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono – who relies heavily on Islamic parties in parliament and rarely criticises hard-liners – did not identify any group by name.

    But he said such violence "was against the law" and groups involved "should be disbanded".

    On Sunday, 1,500 hard-liners attacked Ahmadiyah sect members with sticks and machetes, killing three men.

    On Tuesday, a mob set two churches ablaze to protest against a Christian's blasphemy sentence as too lenient.


  5. Eric

    for the month of February: Disturbing trend

    2011.02.08 Thailand Yala

    1 Killed 1 Injured

    A 58-year-old Buddhist man and his wife are shot in their pickup truck by Muslim 'insurgents'.

    2011.02.07 Iraq Iskandariya

    2 Killed 0 Injured

    A woman is among two Iraqis murdered by Mujahideen bombers.

    2011.02.07 Afghanistan Bak

    1 Killed 0 Injured

    A local official is assassinated by Sunni fundamentalists.

    2011.02.07 Afghanistan Kandahar

    1 Killed 5 Injured

    An Afghan is taken out by a Fedayeen suicide bomber.

    2011.02.06 Pakistan Nut Kallan

    1 Killed 0 Injured

    A young Christian is tortured to death by several Muslims.

    2011.02.06 Philippines Kabacan

    6 Killed 6 Injured

    A 4-year-old boy is among six civilians killed in the crossfire when rival Religion of Peace groups shoot at each other.

    2011.02.06 Pakistan Quetta

    1 Killed 0 Injured

    Muslim radicals are suspected in the shooting death of a Hindu man.

    2011.02.06 Indonesia Banten

    3 Killed 6 Injured

    Three members of the Ahmadiyah minority sect are dragged out of their homes and beaten to death by a Sunni mob chanting 'Allah Akbar'.

    2011.02.05 Iraq Balad

    2 Killed 3 Injured

    Sunni bombers target a Shia shrine, killing two pilgrims.

    2011.02.05 Philippines M'lang

    2 Killed 0 Injured

    Two farmers are shot to death in their field by Moro Islamists.

    2011.02.05 Pakistan Khyber

    3 Killed 2 Iinjured

    Three civilians are ripped to pieces by a car bomb.

    2011.02.05 Pakistan Karak

    4 Killed 0 Injured

    Four civilians are abducted and shot to death. Notes pinned to their bodies accuse them of being Jewish spies.

    2011.02.04 Thailand Yala

    2 Killed 0 Injured

    Two security personnel are murdered by Muslim bombers.

    2011.02.04 Afghanistan Kandahar

    1 Killed 3 Injured

    Women and children are among the casualties when Jihadi bombers target a market.

    2011.02.04 Pakistan Karachi

    1 Killed 0 Injured

    A Shia leader dies from wounds suffered in a sectarian attack the night before.

    2011.02.04 Iraq Tuz Khormato

    3 Killed 0 Injured

    Two teenage boys are among three Iraqis blown to bits in a targeted bombing.

    2011.02.04 Thailand Pattani

    1 Killed 2 Injured

    Militant Muslims fire into a Buddhist village, killing one.

    2011.02.03 Thailand Pattani

    5 Killed 2 Injured

    Muslim militants spray a group of elderly Buddhists at a market with machine-gun fire, killing five.

    2011.02.03 Mauritania Bezoul

    1 Killed 0 Injured

    A local cop is gunned down by al-Qaeda militants.

    2011.02.03 Afghanistan Kunduz

    3 Killed 0 Injured

    A man and his two young sons are ripped to shreds by Taliban bombers.

    2011.02.03 Pakistan Lahore

    3 Killed 27 Injured

    Islamic militants bomb a rival shrine during food distribution, killing three.

    2011.02.03 Iraq Baghdad

    6 Killed 24 Injured

    Three Mujahid bombings take down six Iraqis.

    2011.02.03 Thailand Pattani

    1 Killed 0 Injured

    Muslim radicals slit the throat of a 49-year-old plantation worker.

    2011.02.03 Iraq Ramadi

    6 Killed 19 Injured

    A Shahid suicide bomber murders six Iraqis.

    2011.02.02 Pakistan Peshawar

    10 Killed 26 Injured

    Women and children are among a dozen innocents slain when Sunnis set off a bomb at a crowded market.

    2011.02.02 Somalia Mogadishu

    3 Killed 0 Injured

    Three civlians are murdered by Muslim roadside bombers.

    2011.02.02 Pakistan Anargi

    3 Killed 4 Injured

    Three local security forces are killed in a Tehreek-e-Taliban attack on their post.

    2011.02.02 Iraq Baghdad

    6 Killed 18 Injured

    Six Iraqis are killed in a series of Jihad attacks.

    2011.02.02 Russia Chegem

    5 Killed 0 Injured

    Islamic radicals burst into a cafe and gun down five traffic cops in cold blood.

    2011.02.02 Pakistan Vehari

    1 Killed 0 Injured

    A 14-year-old girl is slowly shocked to death by her family for refusing to marry a cousin.

    2011.02.01 Thailand Yala

    4 Killed 0 Injured

    Two Buddhist children, ages 7 and 15, are kidnapped and shot to death by Religion of Peace 'separatists'.

    2011.01.31 Bangladesh Shariatpur 14-year-old girl is lashed to death on the orders of a Sharia council. Her"crime" having been raped by a 40 yr old married man.

  6. Eric

    Cyber chatting against Islam, says Malaysian preacher

    Preacher and motivational speaker Mohammed Zawawi Yusoh told Harian Metro newspaper that people who engage in chats even on cyberspace were "vulnerable to temptation".??It is akin to committing 'khalwat' (close proximity), which is an offence under the Islamic jurisprudence.??Khalwat and other offences under the Islamic law are enforced on the majority population with the help of vigilantes from religious affairs department. Malaysia is an Islamic nation.??They carry out raids, either on their own or on a tip off from family members of the likely offenders or from members of public.…


  7. Muslims must have learnt very well the proverbial camel and the Arab. . . . . In the middle of the cold Arabian night, to seek warmth, the camel first stuck its nose into the Arab's tent. Then, its neck and before you know it, it kicked the Arab out.

    Britain has been very tolerant and charitble towards Muslims for yonks and has finally had a gutful. The Muslims simply don't seem to know how to repay charity and tolerance heaped upon them by others. They repay seemingly by what's taught them in the handbook – by taking advantage of the system, camel style, become arrogant and abuse the priviledges accorded them.

    They don't intergrate or assimilate into the culture that had been charitable and accommodative towards them but instead impose their religious will on others.

    Britain to drop multiculturalism policy to combat Islamist extremism

    - AFP

    LONDON – Prime Minister David Cameron will condemn Britain's long-standing policy of multiculturalism as a failure Saturday as he sets out his vision for how to combat home-grown Islamist extremism.

    In a speech to the Munich Security Conference, Cameron will signal a marked change in policy towards Britain's ethnic and religious minorities, saying the "hands-off tolerance" of those who reject Western values has failed.

    He will urge a "more active, muscular liberalism" where equal rights, the rule of law, freedom of speech and democracy are actively promoted to create a stronger national identity, according to an advance copy of his speech.

    "If we are to defeat this threat, I believe it's time to turn the page on the failed policies of the past," he will say.

    It is Cameron's first major speech on Islamist extremism, an issue of major concern for governments here ever since four home-grown suicide bombers attacked the London transport system in 2005, killing 52 people.

    The prime minister, who took power in May 2010, will argue that "under the doctrine of state multiculturalism, we have encouraged different cultures to live separate lives, apart from each other and the mainstream".

    He says this had resulted in a lack of national identity in Britain which had made some young Muslims turn to extremist ideology.

    "Frankly, we need a lot less of the passive tolerance of recent years and much more active, muscular liberalism," Cameron will say.

    "A passively tolerant society says to its citizens: as long as you obey the law, we will leave you alone. It stands neutral between different values.

    "A genuinely liberal country does much more. It believes in certain values and actively promotes them…. It says to its citizens: this is what defines us as a society."

    Cameron will clearly distinguish between Islam the religion and the political ideology of Islamist extremism, saying they "are not the same thing".

    But he will argue that non-violent organisations which present themselves as a gateway to the Muslim community but are ambiguous on Western values should no longer receive state funding, and should be banned from university campuses.

    David Cameron was being diplomatic, unlike an MP in the Austrian Piliament:

  8. Eric

    Its gets WORSE … numbers don't lie … no prizes for guessing who Mariam is targeting or should we just blame the Internet

    Malaysian Children and Child Abuse

    Written by Mariam Mokhtar

    TUESDAY, 25 JANUARY 2011

    Lax pedophilia enforcement, delays in court cases leave too many children scarred

    In a country where Malay/Muslim children can be married off by the state once they reach puberty, the greater evil is the undercurrent of little-known but ugly acts committed against children, and that sex offenders largely get off lightly, with the courts denying the children any form of justice.

    There are concerns that a generation of sexually abused children who are vulnerable and suffer from serious, long-term psychological trauma is being left behind. After enduring years of sexual abuse by relatives or people who are known to the family, only a small percentage of victims eventually report abuse.

    Many are threatened with physical harm by the perpetrators or are afraid of being shunned by their families and the community.

    Sadly, many victims and their families have found, in the end, it is the judge, the courts and the Director of Public Prosecutions who are guilty of delaying sentencing or for handing down non-deterrent sentences. Thus, having endured sexual abuse, they find that they go through yet more humiliation and abuse from agents of the state.

    The statistics are notoriously unreliable. According to a UNICEF investigation, only 10 percent of cases are likely to be reported as most of the victims and their families were ashamed or fearful. It is also reported by NGOs that most victims know the people abusing them – grandfathers, fathers, stepfathers, relatives, tuition teachers, family friends and neighbors, so the abuser appears normal to the child. Malaysian police statistics for 2006, the last year available, show that 89 percent of the perpetrators of child sexual abuse were people known to the victims and that 53 percent of these perpetrators were parents.

    In 2010, 2,426 rape cases were reported, a monthly average of 202. In addition, according to the statistics, another 147 sodomy cases were reported. Another 1610 cases of "outraging modesty" were reported to police.

    In an attempt to determine the prevalence and extent of childhood sexual abuse, the Paediatric Department, Hospital Ipoh in the state of Perak conducted a study among a group of paramedical students at the Ipoh School of Nursing and Hospital Bahagia Medical Assistant Training School. The study defined sexual abuse as rape, sodomy, molestation, or exhibitionism occurring to a child less than 18 years of age.

    If the experience of the paramedical students is any guide, the reported figures are far too low. Of 616 students who took part in the study, 7 percent – one out of every 14 – acknowledged having been sexually abused as children. Of those, 69 percent reported abuse involving physical contact, 10 percent of whom experienced sexual intercourse. In 38 percent of the cases, the victims were below 10 years old. Around 60 percent said they were repeatedly abused and 33 percent said they had suffered at the hands of more than one abuser.

    Some 71 percent of the abusers were known to their victims, 14 percent of whom were brothers, 25 percent relatives, and 25 percent a family friend. The results of the study revealed that 30 percent of the participants knew of someone who had been sexually abused as a child.

    The majority of victims wait around three to five years for the trial to conclude. The reasons for the long delay are many and varied; the prosecutor or judge is on leave, the lawyer is not available, the witness will not attend trial, or simply that there are too many cases for that particular day.

    For example, two seven-year-old ethnic Malay girls from Perak had been molested by an acquaintance of the family. Over an extended period of time, he had forced them to touch him in intimate places before attempting to rape them. The perpetrator could have been subject to a maximum sentence of 10 years and/or a RM20,000 fine under the law. He was found guilty and sentenced to two months jail. He immediately lodged an appeal to the High Court and was freed on bail, pending appeal.

    Two years later, the offender was cleared of all charges by the High Court because the prosecutor had 'lost' the evidence, and had not cross-examined the main witness, the doctor who treated the victims. The offender did not serve a day in jail.

    The victims and their parents were devastated. In addition, the parents are ashamed of facing their daughters because of their failure to secure justice.

    "The law can no longer protect the rights of the victims," one family member said. "The girl is devastated. Her mother does not want to subject her daughter to an appeal in which she might suffer more trauma. Justice is non-existent in Perak."

    A doctor who deals with sexual abuse in children said, "Sometimes it looks like the judge has more sympathy with the sex offender than the child victim".

    In another case, also in Perak, a seven-year-old girl had been regularly shown pornographic videos by her step-father who had also tried to rape her three times.

    The offender was charged but after four years of delays and postponements, he pleaded guilty before the hearing process started. Having changed his plea to 'guilty', the court handed him a lighter sentence because the guilty plea meant he 'regretted his actions'.

    He was given 10 months in jail from the date of the charge (2007) and fined RM1,500 for each rape attempt. However, he had already been jailed for failing to post bail at the time of his arrest. So this time around, he only needed to pay the fine before being declared a free man.

    The mother of the victim is disillusioned with Malaysian justice and is reluctant to appeal because she said, "Why bother? Nothing will ever change."

    The victim, who has developed a craving for sex, is still undergoing long-term psychotherapy and counselling in the Child Psychiatric Unit. The trauma felt by the child is also felt by the mother who is receiving counselling.

    While victims have to depend on the police and the DPP to secure a conviction, the offenders are able to hire the best lawyers in town. Malaysia's Attorney-General is perceived by the parents as being reluctant to review the sentences. One parent said, "It might take years before we get any reply, that is if the AG wants to reply."

    One doctor who works with sexually abused children said, "Stepfathers are supposed to protect their children, not abuse them. A prolonged trial would definitely affect the child and her parents. Going to court is stressful. There is bound to be long-term damage to the child's pride and self-esteem."

    Studies have shown that abused children grow into adults with suicidal tendencies and many other deleterious habits. They tend to be promiscuous and enter dysfunctional relationships.

    Perhaps, in an attempt to shore up public confidence in the judiciary, one of Malaysia's top judges reminded his judicial officers to impose sentences that would prove a deterrent, as a means to check the crime rate.

    Malaysia's Chief Justice Tun Zaki Azmi, speaking at a Bar convention in the Putrajaya International Convention Centre, warned that if the public were to lose confidence in the courts and law enforcement agencies, they might start taking the law into their own hands.

    He said that the public demanded that criminals be brought to justice early and that they should be given sentences that would deter others from committing similar offences. He stressed that justice was not only for the accused but also the victim, witnesses and the public.

    Many of the sexually abused children of Malaysia will wonder how long they have to wait for justice. The process of going through the courts is an experience that is just as harrowing as the original sexual abuse. The forces of law and order that are supposed to help the children far too often finally betray them.…

  9. Ahmed Kamal: It is not my choice to believe that Islam promotes or has a great propensity towards violence . . . . it is in your handbook!

    Ali Davidson has just listed verses from your own "holy book". One does not need to have to closely study the expressions and the language used in those verses. Just a cursory glance will scare the crap out of any decent peace loving person. It reads like a handbook guide on how to hate and how to inflict harm towards others who cross their path. And that is even permitted! Whereas, the bible on the other hand, has a list of Thou shalt nots . . . . no that I am of that faith. I just happened to have studied at a catholic school.

    How can you still defiantly continue defending your faith as non-violent? Pls don't argue that the verses were taken out of context or in isolation. Guys, why even stick them in there in the first place? I don't see how such verses can promote peace, goodwill and understanding or a harmonious relationship among people. It does not! Period. If you defend it as "peace-loving" and a "beautiful" religion, then you must be mad or blind or dumb or all three.

    Azira argues that it is the people and not the religion . . . . Look guys, it is both. This kind of language and expressions obviously attract like people. Egs, bitter people like Ibrahim Ali's, Ridhuan Tee Abdullah's, in-bred mufti of Perak and that Chinese ustaz whose name escapes me and many others . . . . even including Mahathir and his UMNO mates. They use your faith as a vehicle to incite violence against others and then quote those verses to justify their actions, in the name of Allah . . . . Allah said so – He permitted it – it is recorded in the koran, for heaven's sake!

    Could you, Azira and Ahmed Kamal, then by any chance be in the wrong religion, if don't agree with the verses? If you didn't agree with those highly inflammatory verses, can you guys explain how come they appear there? A work of the Satan? . . . . no, it can't be that they are one and the same . . . . ???!

  10. Eric

    Singapore's kinda "Lina Joy" with a bigger whiff of octane"

    The Maria Hertogh riots or Nadrah riots, began on 11 December 1950 in Singapore after a court decided that a child who had been raised by Muslims should be returned to her biological Catholic parents. A protest by outraged Muslims escalated into a riot when images were published showing 13-year-old Maria Hertogh (or Bertha Hertogh) kneeling before a statue of the Virgin Mary. Rioting in Singapore lasted till noon on 13 December 1950. In total 18 people were killed and 173 injured. Many properties were also damaged.

    Hertogh (also known as Nadrah) had been in the care of Aminah binte Mohamed before being returned to her biological Dutch Catholic parents.

    Maria Hertogh Part 1……

  11. Ali Davidson

    Hahahahaha….Ahmed and Azira…hahahah how so very naive.

    Muslims are people, it is the religion itself that make them do most of the crazy things. It is the religion that glorifies violence and discriminates with differences like kafir and believer. It is the religion that teaches you to hate and disdain people outside of the group.

    Quran (9:30): "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

    Quran (9:38-39): "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."

    Bukhari (52:177): Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

    Qur'an (22:19-22): "These twain (the believers and the disbelievers) are two opponents who contend concerning their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads. Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron. Whenever, in their anguish, they would go forth from thence they are driven back therein and (it is said unto them): Taste the doom of burning."

    Muslim (16:4131): They were caught and brought to him (the Holy Prophet). He commanded about them, and (thus) their hands and feet were cut off and their eyes were gouged and then they were thrown in the sun, until they died.

    Qur'an (33:36): "It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision."

    Bukhari (88:219): "Never will succeed such a nation as makes a woman their ruler."

    Qur'an (4:24): "And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess."

    Abu Dawud (2150): "The Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Qur’anic verse: (Qur'an 4:24) 'And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess.'"

    Qur'an (8:55): "Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve"

    Bukhari (52:177): Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

    Ibn Ishaq: 327: “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

    Ibn Ishaq: 992 – "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."…Muhammad before a military attack.

    Religion of Peace, eh?

  12. Eric

    Ha ! Ha! …I thought you only find this in the Catholic Church

    A Muslim cleric, once decorated by Buckingham Palace, is facing jail after being convicted of 'preying on' and 'abusing' two boys at his mosque.

    Mohammed Hanif Khan, 42, one of Britain's most influential imams, became the first ever full-time Islamic minister in the history of the British prison service in 2001.

    Highly respected, in 2004 he visited the Palace to receive a Butlers' Trust Award from Princess Anne for his work in diversity. Under his grand title of Sheik Mohammed Hanif Haqqani Kareemi he led prayers and gave Islamic education to boys.

    But a two-week long trial at Nottingham Crown Court heard Hanif Khan used his position of power at the mosque in Stoke-on-Trent, Staffs, to terrify, intimidate and abuse the two young boys in 2009 – then aged 12 and 15.

    After three days of deliberation a jury found him guilty of two counts of rape and one count of sexual activity with a child. He was remanded in custody for sentencing at a later date.…


  13. Ahmed Kamal

    1. @Ali Davidson, @robbityBob, if you believe that Islam is a religion that creates violent people that's your choice. The majority of Muslims that I have met abhor violence – the worst are just intolerant. Perhaps your life experience is different which is why you have this opinion. I don't form an opinion of a religion based solely on its teachings but also on the behaviour of its practitioners.

    2. One problem I see is in how religion is taught in this country. Children are born into a religion that they are not taught to understand, merely to accept. So the school teaches them to follow a myriad of rules without any understanding of why the rules are there or how their life can benefit. There's no discussion. "You obey or you will be punished" is all these kids learn. Those that don't really accept Islam in their hearts grow up into oppressed adults.

    3. I believe that apostasy laws should make it easier to leave the religion. There is nothing to gain by oppressing someone who doesn't really believe in your faith. Let them go.

    4. Who is pushing for reform in conversion and apostasy laws? Who is pushing for reform of the Syariah courts and JAKIM? Only politicians can, correct? With the Sultan having final say I'd imagine. But our govt does not allow for questioning anything to do with Islam. No political party talks about reforming these institutions. So JAKIM is untouchable?

  14. Azira Aziz

    The problem in Islam isn't the religion bro, it's the people. I think this man has succintly stated it"

    The case for critical Islam

    FEB 2 — I was excited to hear that Ziauddin Sardar, described as “one of the finest intellectuals on the planet,” was in town. Born in Pakistan, he is a Visiting Professor of The City University, London, and is an experienced author and television broadcaster.

    He is a practising Muslim, and according to the New Statesman, “in an Islamic context, but perhaps any context his achievement is startling in its range, boldness, scepticism and above all, sheer quality.” I was especially intrigued when I found out he was here to give a talk on “Critical Islam.”

    His discussion began with the idea that people do horrible things out of a feeling of xenophobia and powerlessness. In short, these feelings are what, in his opinion, the Muslim world is currently experiencing.

    Sardar referred to the recent events in Egypt and Pakistan to support his point. According to the professor, the image of Islam has been tainted by these horrible events. The international community sees Muslims as violent, intolerant, and even against the existence of “others.”

    I listened intently and tried to take as many notes as I could. He provided so many points it was difficult to keep up. I have done my best to summarise his argument.

    Sardar sees intellectual capital as extremely lacking in the Muslim world. In his words, “there is no intellectual institution of international respect.” Why? Intellectual capital comes from criticism, which he feels has not been acceptable in an Islamic context.

    He clarified that it is not criticism for the sake of criticism or for destructive purposes, and emphasised the need for “constructive criticism.” This critical thinking needs to be applied to all of the world’s ideologies — and that includes all religions — not just Islam.

    In Sardar’s opinion, independent reasoning has been void from the Muslim world for a long time. He refers to the Islamic concept of Ijtihad, which encourages independent reasoning, and how it is beneficial.

    According to him, if one asks a Muslim scholar about Ijtihad, the scholar would reply this act is always accomplished. However, Sardar disagrees. Instead, he feels most scholars spend their time focusing on unimportant issues.

    For example, he pointed out some are overly concerned with “which way to pray when on the moon,” which apparently was an issue during the planning stages of a Malaysian voyage to outer space. Sardar doesn’t think this is important, just a waste of time.

    So what prevents independent reasoning which Sardar feels is so central to Islamic success? The professor thinks it is fear. He thinks Muslims fear getting “it” wrong.

    He spoke of encounters with critics who tell him “you are not qualified to interpret the Quran,” since he is not an Islamic scholar. In rebuttal, he says “If I am a believer, I read the Quran and interpret it [and] as a human being if I get it wrong, no big deal.”

    After all, everyone makes mistakes — even scholars. In regards to Islamic scholarship, he feels questions should be asked without bounds. Centuries-old interpretations should not be automatically trusted just because they’ve been trusted for centuries.

    Furthermore, he feels there is a reason why God never said anything direct in the holy text. As stated by Sardar, “God must like a good argument.”

    Next, Sardar feels that idealisation is a problem with Islam. He believes Muslims tend to idealize past figures, keeping a romantic, almost utopian vision of what Islam used to be. However, this vision never actually existed.

    He observed “Mecca [a place he has extensively visited] is a horrendous city” with a “horrendous history” of violence, racism, corruption, xenophobia and void of any notion of sustainability. To prove his point, he stated that Indo/Malay populations suffered the most during the 19th century in Mecca. They laughed at these foreigners for wanting to be like Arabs.

    He also believes philosophy has disappeared from the Muslim world. This critical thinking was deemed bad for society, and at one point supposedly banned in certain countries. In fact, he said, they “considered philosophy as being only for idiots.”

    Sardar made it clear that his version of critical Islam will only work if done properly. This criticism must start with oneself, and only then can it be focused on other issues. Second, the criticism needs to be inclusive. That means that all voices should be heard, those of Muslims and Non-Muslims. Finally, the criticism must have a dimension of foresight and strategy. He calls it “criticism to build.”

    Where will critical Islam take Muslims and those who share the planet with them? According to Sardar, critical Islam must take us to a place in the future that is better than the present state. Things can change rapidly.

    He used the example of technology, and how we are all connected. Protests happen and the whole world knows. Situations escalate much faster, and in this case he sees the escalation of critical thinking as possibly happening for the improvement of humankind.

    However, a problem exists: there is a dilemma between modern and traditional. Sardar sees contradictions as never being resolved, so humans need to go somewhere that is the best for both; a new “transmodern place.”

    He wants to see us evolve “from the mess that we find ourselves” to a place that is “open, inclusive, democratic and accountable.”

    It is important to note that Sardar thinks a lot of good comes out of Muslim society, which is obviously what keeps him devoted to Islam. He cited a recent Egyptian example where one group of Muslims went to burn a church. A different group of Muslims were there saying “you have to get through us first". This is the interpretation of Islam he sees as just and right.

    After the presentation, an interesting and lively discussion followed. Just when I thought most of the audience “got it”, a lecturer from an Islamic university here in Malaysia emphasised that boundaries for discussion must be set first — only then could a “critical discussion” take place. I could see Sardar’s disappointment as he answered the gentleman’s question with grace.

    Is Ziauddin Sardar simply a provocative outsider’s voice, or should his ideas hold weight in 21st century multi-cultural Malaysian society?

    Taken from :…

  15. I agree absolutely with you, Ali Davidson.

    For the life of me (and many others too), I simply cannot understand or comprehend how Islam can have such a hold and grip on the Muslim mind. It is so hypnotic and mesmerising that it takes control over their rational thinking. The writer is an intelligient woman/man. But when it comes to religion, she/he seems to be quite incapable of viewing from life outside of Islam or perceive an angle away from the Muslim's mind. She/he and her/his fellow believers are so consumed by their belief that they appear not to be able to see rhyme or reason outside of it.

    Is it because you guys aren't allowed to venture outside Islam to sample what life is like in the 'outside' world, that you only know life on one side of a double-sided coin? Guys, just take a peep on the other side. I can assure that there is a vibrant life over there.

    You are like your holy man's (pbuh?) proverbial mountain . . . . I mean, you would think that if that bloke (pbuh?) was realistic enough to move to the mountain rather than attempting to move the mountain, that he should have been practical enough not to bind his followers into such a blind faith. . . . . learn to give and take. Accept losing graciously. If he (pbuh?) had been flexible, why can't you guys be flexible too, for heaven's sake? Is it a case of do as I say but not as I do? Actually, that is not quite true. He (pbuh?) had many wives and at least one under-aged. And it has been a bonanza for male Muslims everywhere, taking this lead from him (pbuh?) as an excuse.

    Why is Islam so rigid, inflexible, unaccommodative and violent? There was a recent case in the UK of brother attempting to murder his own sister just because she had been seeing a Hindu boyfriend. Please don't say that the individual was 'drunk' and the case had nothing to do with Islam. If he was drunk, why was he drinking? Isn't alcohol forbidden?

    Was it because he consumed alcohol give himself courage to commit the criminal act to protect the 'good' name Islam? Did he misinterpret the holy book? There must have been a verse somewhere in the holy book that permits this sort of violent behaviour towards others.

    Sorry, no matter how you defend this sort of behaviour in the name of the faith, I am inflexible in this instance. There is simply no excuse what-so-ever for such a verse being written into any holy book that provokes one into such animal behaviour. I think it is irresponsible and reprehensible. 'Religion of peace', my foot!

    It is quite plain that it was in the teachings that made this man react violently towards his own sibling because liasons between a Muslim girl and a non-Muslim is not kosher. Islam seems to attract violent people or, is it people who are pre-disposed to violence against others (inside and outside Islam) are attracted to the religion? Seriously, how can anyone say that the religion is a religion of peace? . . . in whose eyes? When has Islam been a religion of peace? There has been violence since its inception, throughout its history till today.

    The reason why integration between Malays and non-Malays in this country is at a minimum is because Islam is so unbending. Why must Muslims go through all the hoops just to opt out of Islam? It is very simple to get in but impossible to get out. It is like a one-way traffic. In contrast, for someone (anyone, not necessarily Muslims) wishing to convert to Catholicism, that person has to go through hoops just to get in but easy to get out. . . . no need permission or go through 're-education' before exiting. I think it is about time that the Koran is desperately in need of an urgent over-haul, a revision or re-write.

    If you say that it is within the Arab culture that is violent, not Islam . . . . well, basically it is an Islamic culture, isn't it? They are totally consumed by their faith and live their lives by it and sumpah by it, don't they?

    The Muslims leaders here have declared themselves Muslims first, Malays second. I mean, what the . . . .? That is what I meant by how hypnotic Islam is. Even leaders, supposedly well-educated people can think like that, what more do you expect of ordinary Muslim Malays ? Why are Muslims 'clean' people and the rest of the world 'kafirs'?

    Heck guys, at the end of the day, it is only a faith, a belief. No one has ever come back from the dead to declare that there was a God, whoever you may perceive him (pbuh)/her/it to be. Snap yourselves out of your hypnotised state and wake up, guys! With due respects, I find Islam a backward religion. Things and times have changed, yet Islam is still shackled in the era before the Middle Ages.

    The trouble with Islam is that it is written in verses which require interpretation to understand. In it is left to the 'scholars' to interpret and preach to the believers. The weakness in this system that it is open to exploiters who take advantage of the vulnerable and preach nonsence.

    Unfortunately, I dare say that even the writer dare not question these scholars, or she/he'd be sent to a re-education camp. They accept the teachings blindly. For example as quoted by the writer:

    "There is no compulsion in religion, for the right way is clearly from the wrong way. Whoever therefore rejects the forces of evil and believes in God, he has taken hold of a support most unfailing, which shall never give way, for God is All Hearing and Knowing. (Quran 2:25)

    If it had been your Lord’s will, all of the people on Earth would have believed. Would you then compel the people so to have them believe? (Quran Srah Ynus: 99)"

    . . . . . It is not simple or plain language, you know. I mean, it may mean something to you but how can you expect the simple kampong folk to understand this gibberish? And fair dinkum, it is in Arabic too, not BM. The above was translated into English . . . . . how well-versed are the kampong folk in Bahasa Inggeris? I think they would still have difficulty understanding the verses even if translated into BM.

    When you go to a Muslim country, it is like travelling into another distant time zone. . . . . Actually, no need to go that far – just walk into any kampong. It is like a time-warp. Do they really understand the preaching of Islam? Can they honestly sumpah so?

  16. Ali Davidson


    My dear apologist, refer below.


    Read Qur’an (8:12):

    “I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”

    Of course, the delightful Sahih al-Bukhari, 9:83:17:

    “Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder, a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam (apostate) and leaves the Muslims.”

    So much for the Religion of Peace!

    What’s wrong with just accepting the fact that Islam isn’t a Religion of Peace? Is that so difficult? Or have you been brainwashed that you cannot think anymore. I don’t understand how a seemingly intelligent girl like you can believe in such a work of extreme hatred and violence. Or maybe you’re not really intelligent after all.

    “Point it, no mortal has the power to decide on the ‘correctness’ of another’s beliefs, choices and faith. It’s God’s will and decision alone. Not us mortals. It shows absolute arrogance for people to strut around dictating what you should and should not believe, how you should or should not behave, or how you should and should not dress, or behave, etc.”

    What a stupid dumbshit you are! When your religion approves genital mutilation, slavery, beheadings, infanticide, religious persecution, hate speech, sex discrimination, flogging, child marriages, suicide/martydom, murder, homophobia, torture and violence, I have to step in and tell you enough is enough.

    Your beliefs are making you into a violent criminal. When you are a threat to my safety and security you need to be silenced because you believe in an ideology that is harmful to yourself and to me. I fear for my safety.

    And you totally misconceive what I say. I have no problem with Muslims but I have a problem with what Islam preaches. The teachings of Islam is loaded with hatred, bigotry and anti-semitism. Your beliefs are a threat to peace.

  17. Eric

    …best for last..…

    JERUSALEM—In a surprise announcement with far-reaching theological implications, Jesus Christ The Nazarene, founder of Christianity and spiritual leader of nearly two billion people, revealed Monday that He has converted to “the one true religion” of Islam.

    Enlarge Image

    Christ (left) consults with his new spiritual advisor, the Righteous Hassan Abdul al-Aziz.

    The controversial announcement has sent shockwaves through religious circles around the globe.

    “Allah is the name of the One and Only God,” Christ said. “Allah has 99 beautiful names: He is known as The Gracious, The Merciful, The Beneficent, The Creator, The All-Knowing, The All-Wise, The Lord Of The Universe, The First, The Last and many more. He has revealed Himself unto Me through the holy words of the blessed Qur’an, and I have put My trust and faith in Him.”

    As part of His conversion, Christ said He has taken a new name, Isa Ibn Maryam al-Salaam Christ Shabazz.

    Christ, 33, is urging Christians worldwide to renounce His former religion of Christianity and join Him in embracing the Muslim way of life.

    “People of all nations, in the past, you have heard Me say that whosoever shall believe in Me shall not die, but have eternal life,” Christ said. “But now, I say unto you, forget I ever said that. There is only one holy revelation of Allah, the Qur’an, which was dictated to the Prophet Mohammed, Praise Be Unto Him, by the Archangel Jibreel in the seventh century after I died.”

    According to Christ, the beauty and perfection of the Qur’an’s Surahs are without equal in all creation, encompassing and surpassing both the Judaic Torah and the New Testament Gospels of His apostles. The former Christian messiah went on to cite Surah Aal’imraan 3:67, which reads, “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.”

    “What could be more clear?” Christ said.

    “I was wrong, and I know that now,” He added. “I deeply regret any problems or confusion I may have caused.”

    The controversial retraction of two millennia of Christian doctrine has provoked strongly divided reaction. Millions of devout Christians, insisting that obeisance to Christ’s commands is the cornerstone of their faith, have heeded His instructions and converted to Islam. Millions more, however, have decried the recalcitrant Christ’s apostasy, breaking ties with Him and calling His conversion “a heathen act” of “utmost blasphemy before Himself.”

    “Jesus, or Isa Shabazz, or whatever He’s calling Himself these days, is the way, the truth and the light. It says so in the Bible,” said devout Catholic Kathleen Langan of Cork, Ireland, kneeling toward Mecca for the first time. “My loyalty to Him is absolute. If He told me to be a Buddhist, I’d do it. All praise and thanks to Allah.”

    Enlarge Image

    Christ (uppermost left) joins fellow Muslims in prayer.

    Ruth-Anne Girolamo, a Sunday school teacher in Stillwater, OK, disagreed. “I’ve been a Bible-believing Christian all my life, and nothing, not even a direct order from Christ Himself, is going to change that,” Girolamo said. “If Christ is going to leave the fold and become a sinner, we’ll just have to go on worshipping Him against His will.”

    The Roman Catholic Church is just as divided: Approximately half the members of the Vatican’s College of Cardinals have advocated embracing Islamic law, while the other half is calling for Christ’s immediate excommunication and recommending the interim worship of Pope John Paul II until a suitable replacement deity can be found.

    In perhaps the oddest development, the Jews For Jesus organization announced Monday that it has split into three separate groups: Jews Still For Jesus, Jews For Allah, and Jews For Just Being Jews Again.

    Christ said He arrived at the decision to convert after centuries of deep soul-searching and contemplation. But it was not until last week’s Good Friday holiday, He said, that His true spiritual path became clear.

    “I was in church, watching all these people hold a candlelight vigil on the day of My crucifixion, when I suddenly felt a profound sense of emptiness,” Christ said. “I got up and walked out, and just sort of wandered aimlessly for a while, wondering what it all meant. Then, I saw something I’d never noticed before. At the mosque down the street, supplicants were gathering to celebrate their weekly holy day of worship, which, by sheer coincidence, happens to be Friday.”

    “I walked in nervously, unsure of why I was even there. After all, during the Crusades, My followers had slaughtered thousands of these people in My name, and I thought maybe they wouldn’t accept Me,” Christ said. “But as I listened to the Imam deliver the weekly sermon, or khutba, I felt the power of Allah in My heart. For the first time, I knew I’d found true inner peace.”

    “I now know it wasn’t random chance that brought Me to that mosque,” Christ continued. “It was the will of Allah.”

    When asked about His future plans, Christ said His next move will be to undertake the Hajj, the holy pilgrimage to Mecca all Muslims are required to make at least once in a lifetime. After that, Christ said He hopes to take a few months off to rest and meditate before starting the next phase of His ministry: traveling to churches around the world and imploring the Christian faithful to stop believing in Him.

    “My new spiritual advisor, the Righteous Hassan Abdul al-Aziz, has explained to Me that I am not—nor was I ever—actually the Son of God, but merely one of many Prophets of the divine revelation which was to come after Me,” Christ said. “After all, there is only one God, so any belief in a triune god, or ‘trinity,’ is polytheistic and contradicts the word of Allah Himself.”

    “For it is written, in Surah Al-Maa’idah 5:116, ‘And behold, Allah will say—O Jesus Son of Mary, did you say to men, worship me and my mother as gods beside Allah? He will reply—Glory to you, I could never say what I had no right [to say].’” Christ said. “You see? It turns out, worshipping Me isn’t the key to the Gates of Heaven, after all. Salvation can only be found in the Five Pillars of Shahada, Salat, Saum, Zakat and Hajj. I can’t believe how obvious it all seems to Me now.”

    Neither the Father nor the Holy Ghost could be reached for comment.

  18. Azira Aziz

    Ali Davidson :

    Those verses are all about "Well, you can't force them to believe in the physical world, but if they make a different choice than yours (serving "insert religion") they will pay penance for it in the hereinafter." (Thank you Andrew) Except for Shinto.

    It is not exclusive to Islam; Christianity, Tohrah, Hindhu, I think even in some interpretation of Buddhism there are classical literature on the inhabitants of hell not merely sinners but also those who do not follow the Buddha's/"insert religion" way of life, if my memory serves me correctly.

    Point it, no mortal has the power to decide on the 'correctness' of another's beliefs, choices and faith. It's God's will and decision alone. Not us mortals. It shows absolute arrogance for people to strut around dictating what you should and should not believe, how you should or should not behave, or how you should and should not dress, or behave, etc. It's a matter of difference in opinion. My truth may not be your truth, but your truth should not be any less respected than mine, for I hold mine close to my bosom and I expect you to feel no less obliged to defend yours as I do mine.

    It's even worse when people put the Arab Muslims on a pedestal and say, hey, those are real Muslims and emulate it 100%, which is honestly weird.

    Also, do not confuse the Taliban with the general Muslim population and especially not the Quran. It's a fringe terrorist group, an anomaly. Most of us don't share similar violent tendencies. Kerana nila setitik rosak susu sebelanga. There's 56 members of the OIC, and most believe in the electoral system of democracy, which a few constitutional and absolute monarchy (including Msia) ( Taliban's ideology does not belong in any world, be it modern or medieval.


    I think it says a lot about a religious body who has an official department which 'legalizes' peeping toms and getting peep shows for free 'in the name of Islam'. Maybe we both should join in. I mean, totally getting paid, and getting respect and power for busting couples in 'action' man…

    Your link, Eric does exhibit a worrying trend of overzealous enforcement of 'my version of Islam v your version of Islam & other religions'. It got one helluva trending in Twitter of twitteratis taking shots at it. It is hilarious, but the worrying thought that it has punitive muscle, that it is enforceable is never good.

    If Najib wants a prayer of success for his 1Malaysia campaign, he's got to tell the religious authorities to cut the nonsense and be moderate in their religious fervour, cause I see them being an obstacle to Malaysian unity.

    JAKIM claims to represent or claims to be the yardstick of what 'true Islam' is, that's why you see all the 'credible' Fatwas coming out (

    I believe that the state should not intervene in the private lives of its citizens, including how we entertain ourselves. Some things, well, it's really between you and God. This is not Islam in any way, this is Arabisation and political power and favor.

    I don't deny that we have a 'Once you check in, you never check out' system in Malaysia when it comes to Conversion to Islam in Malaysia. There are also overzealous 'evangelists' who convert people by trickery and fraud. I don't consider them Muslims.

    We need a regular interfaith dialogue to address minor-minor friction issues that crop up now and then as well as conversion, and I do know that LoyarBurokkers, SABM, and so far that I know of, a small band of Human Right lawyers regularly attempt to address this in courts as well as advocacy and fight against the tide at the risk of their lives and livelihood.

    You see, in this blessed country, we have mobs. Mobs are angry. Mobs are sensitive when we prioritize humanity over 'the truth of Islam'(when in truth the point in Islam is Justice & Humanity, I dunno which pondok these fellas came from lah). They are the people we have to continuously engage and persuade to our point of view.

    Well, I'm trying to do my small part whenever I can. It's your right as citizens too. Any help in any skill that you have is much appreciated. Please contact me through Twitter @ladymissazira

    Atheist & abdulhaleem : Spot on!

  19. Eric


    *Iban soldiers who are predominantly Christian are forbidden to have prayer gatherings in Army Camps (churches are too far and transportation is either forbidden or not allowed…this is policy)

    *Ibans are discouraged from joining as obstacles are placed (tattoos are part of Iban culture, but not allowed)

    To prevent CONTAMINATION and preserve the souls of the UMMAH the government using tax payer dollars created:

    Religious Corp of the Malaysian Armed Forces

  20. Eric

    ..the GOLD standard of Islam is Saudi Arabia – Lee Kuan Yew…

  21. Eric

    Previously unpublished English translations of sermons from Malaysia’s Department of Islamic Development reveal potentially lethal levels of hostility towards the West that appear to have gone unnoticed. The Department of Islamic Development cannot be dismissed as some renegade fringe group. It is an official and intrinsic part of the Malaysian government, similar in function to the Department of Health and Human Services in the United States. On its website, the Department defines itself thusly: “Department of Islamic Development Malaysia (JAKIM) is a Malaysian Government institution which has a vision to assist in the creation of a progressive and morally upright ummah based on Islamic principles in line with the Malaysian vision through an efficient and effective Islamic Affairs Management organisation.” JAKIM is an acronym for Jabatan Kemajuan Islam Malaysia.

    Every Friday, the Muslim holy day, sermons (khutbahs) are given in mosques. During Israel’s Cast Lead operation in January 2009, when Israel entered Gaza to stop being bombarded with rockets, the khutbahs of Malaysia’s Department of Islamic Development became warlike.

    On January 9, 2009, the khutbah denounced Israel as “evil” and a call was made to use the Malaysian Ministry of Foreign Affairs to channel financial assistance to the Palestinians. A boycott was demanded of all goods and services connected with both Israel and America. Countries that are part of the Organization of the Islamic Conference and all other Muslims were urged to stop using the American dollar as currency.…

  22. Eric

    Malaysia’s Muslims have ‘no way out’…

    JOHOR BAHRU, Malaysia — In multiethnic Malaysia, where Islam is the official religion but freedom of religion is guaranteed under the constitution, the majority Malays are born Muslim and apostasy is all but impossible for them.

    Cases of aspiring apostates are handled by Shariah courts, rather than civil courts. According to the Koran, apostasy is grounds for death, and no Muslim should assist another out of the religion. So the appeals usually sit, and sit. Many would-be apostates don’t live to see their conversion officially recognized.

    Some have been jailed. As one religious scholar put it, “In Malaysia, there’s a way into Islam, but no way out.”

    Although proselytizing of Muslims by non-Muslims is forbidden, the reverse is permissible. Proselytizers have been sent to jail under the Internal Security Act (ISA), which allows for indefinite detention without trial. Hands off our Muslims, who make up 60 percent of the population, the Malay-led government appears to be saying.

    The government is especially worried about Christian proselytizing, said Shad Salem Faruq, professor of law at the University of Technology MARA. Malaysia is home to substantial Hindu and Buddhist minorities, 6 and 20 percent respectively.

    “But Hinduism and Buddhism historically have had less of a tradition of proselytizing than Christianity,” he said.

    It is illegal to print the Bible and other Christian materials in the national language, Bahasa Malay. Some states restrict the use of certain religious terms by Christians in the Malay language, lest Muslims be confused.

    Yet, despite the obstacles, some Christian proselytizers are busy.

    The Rev. Kumar — not his real name — recalls the religious police rattling his front gate in the middle of the night. The warning was clear.

    “But I am not afraid,” Mr. Kumar said. “My work is God’s will and I have a worthy cause to fight for. [Malays] have a right to find Jesus.”

    His evangelical church has 12 branches throughout Malaysia and 30 affiliates, and Mr. Kumar estimates that 100 Muslims are converting to Christianity every month in the country. He said there has been a marked increase in interest in the past three years, since the September 11 attacks in the United States. A royal family and the daughter of a former prime minister are among his list of converts.

    Christian groups estimate that there are 30,000 Malay converts in the country. Some Muslim groups say the figure is much lower. However, nondenominational observers say most converts live in secrecy for fear of harassment from the government, family and fellow Malays.

    One Malay convert and former ustaza, a Muslim religious teacher, reports that she and her family are harassed regularly by the authorities. Because she is Malay, her son was born a Muslim and forced to adopt a Muslim name. In school, despite his protests of being a Christian, he has to sit through Islamic studies, a requirement for all Muslims.

    Last year, the religious police demanded that she stop her “activities,” which included helping drug addicts and battered women.

    She conceded, though, that part of the assistance involved introducing Malays to Christian doctrine. She recalled parking herself at a McDonald’s wearing a Muslim head scarf to more effectively introduce Muslim schoolgirls to the Bible.

    In Kuala Lumpur, boys who are a part of Mr. Kumar’s proselytizing movement frequent mosques.

    Christians reputedly also have resorted to sponsoring picnics for Malay children and offering them gifts.

    In the cramped lobby of Mr. Kumar’s headquarters, a magazine headline reads: “Storming the Enemy’s Stronghold.”

    The first paragraph explains, “Within the 10/40 window,” referring to the area stretching roughly from the Middle East through India, China and into Southeast Asia, “lie 62 of the least evangelized nations on this planet.” The area is viewed by some zealots as the last stronghold preventing Christian global dominance.

    One is left to wonder, is the government rightfully fearful or just plain paranoid? What is seen by some as an issue of freedom of religion is viewed by others as an abuse of freedom.

    “You can talk about your religion freely, just don’t try to convert,” said Azizuddin Ahmad, secretary-general of the Muslim Youth Group of Malaysia (ABIM).

    He said many apostates were led astray from Islam not by the virtue of the faith they were converting to but the concept of freedom. In Malaysia, Muslims are bound by certain laws, such as on alcohol consumption, sexual relations and marriage, that non-Muslims are not. Certain states are known to enforce these laws more than others.

    Muslims also get preferential treatment.

    The U.S. government’s International Religious Freedom Report for 2003 said, “It is official policy to ‘infuse Islamic values’ into the administration of the country.”

    Indeed, the new Islamic-themed administrative capital houses a prominent mosque but no other place of worship. And non-Muslims report difficulties in obtaining licensing and state funding for their places of worship.

    Malaysia has become increasingly Islamized since the early 80s — inspired first by the Iranian Revolution and by Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad’s charismatic deputy Anwar Ibrahim, who founded ABIM and joined the country’s most powerful political party, the United Malays National Organization, in the 1980s. Malaysia was further Islamized by government attempts to out-Islamize the hard-line Parti Islam SeMalaysia (PAS). PAS made substantial progress in 1999 parliamentary elections but suffered in its rematch with the National Front in March.

    The tide of these developments may pose challenges for non-Muslims and apostates, “but they are not paralyzing,” said lawyer Lee Min Choon, adding that the government’s religion policy generally is conducted with the best of intentions.

    “The government doesn’t have a program to create difficulties for other religions. They want peace for all religions,” he said.

    This is not an easy task. Non-Muslims grumble of “Malay/Muslim bias.” But the government can’t afford to be seen as anti-Muslim.

    The government has appeased the various communities enough to prevent large-scale race- and religion-fueled violence — though at the expense of respect, interest and meaningful interaction among the communities. Race and religion are taboo subjects, and there’s a lot of pent-up rage.

    At the same time, the government’s policy — including banning a procession in at least one instance because it conflicted with Muslim prayer time — is prompting anger.

    “These gestures are causing some hard feelings,” said an assistant to Mr. Kumar.

    Proselytizers of any stripe tend to feel justified in their actions, rationalizing them as a form of salvation, leading the astray from darkness.

    But Mr. Kumar will be hard-pressed to convince most Muslims here of the superiority of his faith, just as most Muslims here find little success in converting Christians.

    Yet, it’s an undertaking that the zealous don’t tire of, even though it rarely leads anywhere, other than to trigger fear and resentment.

    Dzulkifli Achmad, director of the research center of PAS, is concerned about the net effect.

    “I used to seek to convert, but I no longer have the drive,” Mr. Achmad said. “When you think of the unique fabric of this society, it is in our interest to enhance mutual respect … proselytizing is a form of disrespect. It is the beginning of the conflict.”

    Some Muslim and non-Muslim leaders say the government could be doing more to improve dialogue and understanding among the faiths.

    It has, for instance, denied permits for several interfaith dialogues. And when Mel Gibson’s film “The Passion of the Christ” arrives here soon, only Christians will be able to view it. Non-Christians will be weeded out in the ticket line on the basis of their national ID cards, which states one’s religion.

    Nora Murah, a legal officer with Sisters in Islam, says the decision contradicts the prophet Muhammad’s teachings. “The prophet embraced diversity and inclusiveness,” she said.

  23. There is something wrong in the 'structure' of the faith when you have in-bred clerics in the position authority in the faith misleading their flock.

    Often and in most cases, these clerics do not have the mental aptitude or capacity to be qualified even to teach kindergarten grade, what more lead the adult faithful. I was embarrassed when not too long ago, I watched the inerview by Australian SBS telivision with the mufti of Perak. Sadly, the majority of clerics seriously think like him, in sharp contrast to the former mufti of Perlis who is sadly in the minority.

    abdulhaleem, even though you 'don't think Muslims in this country give a flying F for anything JAKIM does or say'. . . . unfortunately and at the same time, these same Muslims do not have the courage or fortitude to demand that JAKIM cease to propergate and preach such divisive and low-level mentality 'guidelines', and that they be more responisble.

    The reality is, the average Muslim may not be learned sufficiently in the faith to be able to distinguish or judge if JAKIM's guidelines are proper or not. They just follow like the proverbial sheep. . . .lemmings?

    Azira, pls ignore AgreeToDisagree . . . this one's left a few loose screws behind somewhere.

  24. abdulhaleem

    Eric, I don't think many Muslims in this country give a flying F for anything JAKIM does or say. A simple example will be any there is not a must for any state to follow national fatwa because state fatwa over rules national fatwa. Which also means we have 10 or more ISLAMIC perspective within Malaysia. My point is Quran and Islam are beautiful. The morons who claims to be the guardian of faith are pure manipulative bastards.

  25. Andrew

    Ali Davidson: The Quran is clear that the punishment for non-believers is in the hereafter, not in this life. In that, it is no different from Christianity.

  26. Eric

    One GOOD thing about ISLAM is, its never boring. And its only January …


    the story thus far:

    In another mass attack against Christians, a suicide bomber detonated at a Coptic church in Alexandria, Egypt, last weekend, killing 21. Compounding an act of Christianity hate with a dose of anti-Semitism, Egypt blamed Israel’s Mossad spy agency for the attack. Israel is one country in the Middle East that has seen its Christian population grow, with Palestinian Christians fleeing persecution in the West Bank ruled by the Palestinian Authority.

    Anti-Christian atrocities are far from uncommon. The State Department this week said it is “deeply concerned” by increasing attacks on Christians in the Middle East and Africa, citing Iraq, Egypt and Nigeria. Christmas Eve church attacks and explosions in Nigeria killed 38 people. In Afghanistan, a prosecutor threatened the death penalty against two Afghans who converted to Christianity. Islamic organizations are blamed for multiple attacks on churches in Indonesia. A Somali teenager was murdered last month for converting to Christianity. The Taliban kidnapped and killed three Christian relief workers in Pakistan last summer.

    Just being tolerant of Christianity can make you a marked man. A prominent Pakistani governor was assassinated Tuesday by his bodyguard. His crime: Working to repeal blasphemy laws used to persecute minorities and standing up for a Christian woman sentenced to death under those laws. An influential group of more than 500 Muslim clerics and scholars paid tribute to the killer. This organization represents Pakistan’s majority Barelvi sect, which according to the AP, “follows a brand of Islam considered moderate.”

    Can anyone imagine the Catholic College of Cardinals justifying murder of non-Christians? Islamist terrorism is more than a bunch of thugs killing people. It’s enabled by radical theology from influential clerics, authoritarian governments using hate of “the other” to manipulate restive populations, and too much silence, or worse, acquiescence in the Muslim world.

    Then you have the LAMO local version of dead chickens, burnt effigies etc..

  27. Eric

    Let's leave Bush out of this … you are right ,,,

    "Overzealousness is a rampant problem within any religion, even moreso manipulated in the political scene to garner public support. "

    Look at State Sanctioned & Sponsored guidelines from Jakim's site:

    Guidelines For Muslims Celebrating Religious Festivals Of Non-Muslims

    For Muslims Celebrating Religious Festivals Of Non-Muslims

    The 68th muzakarah of the National Fatwa Committee for Islamic Religious Affairs on April 12, 2005  discussed the Guidelines For Muslims Celebrating Religious Festivals Of Non-Muslims. The muzakarah has decided that:

    In determining the non-Muslim celebrations that can be attended by Muslims, several main criteria should serve as guidelines so as not to contradict the teachings of Islam. The criteria are as follows:

    1. The event is not accompanied by ceremonies that are against the Islamic faith (aqidah).

    The meaning of “against the Islamic faith (aqidah)” is a thing, act, word or situation which if conducted will lead to tarnishing the faith (aqidah) of Muslims. 

    For example:

    i. to include religious symbols such as the cross, installing lights, candles, Christmas tree and so forth;

    ii. to sing religious songs;

    iii. to put any religious markings on the forehead, or other markings onto parts of the body;

    iv. to deliver speech or gestures in the form of a praise to the non-Muslim religion;

    v. to bow or conduct acts of honour to the religious ceremony of non-Muslims.


    2. The event is not accompanied by acts against the Islamic law.

    The meaning of “against the Islamic law” is a thing, act, word or situation which if conducted will contradict the Islamic teachings practised by the Muslim community.

    For example:

    i. Wearing red costumes like Santa Claus or other garments that reflect religion;

    ii. Serving intoxicating food or beverages and the likes;

    iii. Having sounds or ornaments like church bells, Christmas tree, temple or breaking of coconuts;

    iv. Having ceremonies with elements of gaming, worship, cult, superstitions and the likes.


    3. The event is not accompanied by “acts that contradict with moral and cultural development of Muslim society” in this country.

    The meaning of “acts that contradict with moral and cultural development of Muslim society” is a thing, act, word or situation which if conducted will contradict the values and norms of the Muslim society of this country which adheres to the Islamic teachings based on Ahlus Sunnah Wal-Jamaah.


    For example:

    i. Mixing freely without any limit or manners;

    ii. Wearing conspicuous clothing;

    iii. Singing songs that contain lyrics of obscenity and worship;

    iv. Organising programmes such as beauty pageants, cock fighting and such.


    4. The event is not accompanied by acts that can “stir the sensitivity of Muslim community”.

    The meaning of “stir the sensitivity of Muslim community” is a thing, act, word or situation which if conducted will offend the feelings of Muslims about their beliefs and practices.


    For Example:

    i. Speeches or songs in the form of non-Muslim religious propaganda;

    ii. Speeches that insult the Muslims;

    iii. Speeches that insult Islam;

    iv. Presentations with the aim to ridicule the religious belief of Muslims.


    5. The organisers and the public are asked to get the views of religious authorities before organising or attending celebrations of non-Muslims.

    • Hits : 182…

  28. Ali Davidson


    I think you're just being an apologist. The fact is there is sufficient amount of material in the Qu'ran itself calling for violence against those who do not believe in Islam, there is anti-semitism and racism in the Qu'ran and disparate/discriminatory treatment of women as well as slavery.

    The Hadis which calls for murder against apostates, homosexuals, adulterers and even sanctions paedophilia. This certainly doesn't sound like a religion worthy of being called the 'Religion of Peace'.

    You are doing nothing more than cherry picking. For instance, take that verse you cited which says 'there is no compulsion in religion(2:256), now read the next verse, what does it say?

    "Allah is the guardian of those who believe. He brings them out of the darkness into the light; and (as to) those who disbelieve, their guardians are Shaitans who take them out of the light into the darkness; they are the inmates of the fire, in it they shall abide. "

    So, sure, there is no compulsion in religion, but the moment you disbelieve you're going to hell! Religion of peace? Really? A religion that relies on such childish concepts like "If you're not with us, then you're with the devil" is really no different from Bush's rhetoric "Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."

    I think the first step for the Muslims is to realise that like all other religions, their religion is not perfect and contains the political rhetoric of humans, they must therefore be wary of what they read instead of taking it as the absolute truth, because it simply isn't.

    So, it has got nothing to do with the individual. It has got something to do with the religion itself which is promoting intolerance and hatred.

    As for Bush and the American policy to rid Afghanistan of the Taliban. They should be praised for that. People like the Taliban have no right being alive from the way they treat the populace. They are people who are against fundamental freedoms, women's rights and liberty of the individual. These people must be put down with the brutest force possible. In short, kill 'em all!

  29. Azira Aziz

    Eric, don't blame the party, blame the individuals in the party. It encompasses all the political and religious bodies in Malaysia.

    Overzealousness is a rampant problem within any religion, even moreso manipulated in the political scene to garner public support. We see it in Bush's fervent call to war against terrorism, calling it a duty. We see the effects of overzealousness in our own history. We see it in so many international examples and yet we learn not from it.

    It starts within the individual, it became dangerous when it is shared by a community, and it becomes oppressive when entrenched or sanctioned by state laws. That's how bigotism flourishes.

  30. Eric

    In 1987, Joshua Jamaluddin – a Malay Muslim who had converted to Christianity – was detained under the ISA and subjected to brutal torture (And the Malaysian Muslims want to hurl insults on the Americans for Abu Ghraib, yee hypocrites, politicians and down), the details of which have been extensively documented by several human rights NGO's. They tried to force him to recant his belief in Christianity but he steadfastly refused. Eventually, they let him go but on condition that if he is to practise his newly-adopted faith, he is to leave the country. Well, he is now in New Zealand.

    One Ashley Lopez from Ipoh and his wife – the daughter of a Haji who renounced her religion of Islam by a deed poll – had to seek refuge in New Zealand to practice Catholicism, the religion of her choice .In the 80s, Susie Teoh a second former in Pasir Mas, Kelantan was forcibly made a ward of the state Religious Department. Her parents were denied access to her. Her father filed a habeas corpus petition but for reasons unknown, the Federal Court only commenced hearing of the case after the girl had attained the age of 18 and when she was married off to a Muslim.

    The presiding judge, while conceding that the parents had the right to decide for their daughter, said that the hearing was merely an academic exercise since the girl had already passed her 18th year and was already married. When a Buddhist, Hindu or Christian converts to Islam, national security is apparently not threatened. Nor there be need for any consideration be given to the sensitivities of the family and community of the convert. But the reverse process immediately assumes national importance requiring the application of drastic legal and extra-legal measures.

    The frantic attempts by Umno and PAS to portray themselves as the only true followers of Islam have made it extremely difficult for non-Muslims so that even innocent displays of affection in public have become gravely sinful, attracting legal penalties. Strange morals govern us for while it is okay for a minister to continue in the cabinet after being tainted by corruption, the hapless couple is deemed to have committed a grossly indecent offence.

  31. Azira Aziz

    Farez, thank you and glad that you liked it.

    Prem Das, I do not claim to speak for any God or spiritual deity. I can only claim to speak for myself, based on what little knowledge of the Quran and its essence of which I am familiar with.

    AgreeToDisagree, I am unsure what you are getting at with the allegations of mind control chips. If there were any, I'm sure Jibby would love to get hold of them. I'm sure if such things exist, there is a counter chip to prevent the hold that such chips have on you. I'd love to get one of those then. =)

  32. Those fat priests who twist faith are about to be replaced by fat psychiatrists who do not need to work along faith decency, fat Techno-facists who simply destroy thought and personality with electronic weapons, and even fat Oligarch Dictators who employ the former. Time runs short to stop this terrorism against citizens :…

  33. Prem Das

    To contend the Creation of a PERFECT,INFALLIBLE,ALL-KNOWING GOD has a fault is to deny the above-mentioned attributes of God itself.

    The big picture is a amalgam of small, illogical portraits that seemingly oppose the very word of God.

    There is no light without darkness, there is no right without wrong. We do not see the big picture so our conjectures borders on the blasphemous.

    There is only God's agenda wrought any which way He sees fit.

    Be blessed to know this article of yours, so well written, has to be part of that agenda. Some are cast as heroes whilst others have the onerous tasks of being villains. Our roles assigned to us make us sway to his slightest will. All actions are according to His will.

  34. i like her mind. can i date it?