Twilight of the Gods

God/Yahweh/Allah does not want you to read this.

When people choose to subscribe to a belief in God, they have failed to appreciate what being a Human is.

Believing in God is the first step towards dehumanization; it calls for the destruction of our autonomy and the relinquishment of our passions, desires and dreams; that we are to feel guilty, ashamed or fearful about who we are. It is really the greatest crime Man has perpetuated on himself; the greatest act of self deceit and like all forms of deceit, it festers into guilt and eventually renders human life worthless.

The human being is the sum of all that is divine. It is the human being that is god. There is nothing that Man is not capable of achieving given the right amount of time. Man is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent in his own respective way, within increasing boundaries. If there is anything that Man needs to worship, it is his own talents and potentials.

The brain, the most advanced organic material in the universe, is responsible for the finest works of art and the most marvelous of scientific theories and observations. There is therefore much to be proud about; who we are, how far we’ve come and where we can go.

In terms of our make up, the human being is a receptor for experiences; experiences which shape our dispositions, values and perspectives. In that respect, no two human beings are the same for we are all subject to an infinite variety of experiences. To believe in anything else but yourself is really the stagnation of your ability to be what you can be.

The need to affix God as an external entity requiring our veneration and adoration is both backward and mediocre to say the least. The formulation of a “Creator” is both unnecessary and primitive for it only leads to more fictitious questions about our existence on this planet; engendering the human mind in denial as a result of cognitive dissonance.

This phenomenon is easily observable with those who believe in God. When asked why they believe in God, the oft cited reply is: “Because God created everything“. Very inevitably this answer sparks up a myriad of further questions: “Who created God?“, “Why did God create all of this?“, “How did God create all of this?“, “Where is God now?“, “What is God’s role in all of this?“, “What is Man’s role in all of this?“, “Why are you here?“, etc.

The answers given to these questions by those who believe in God remain in the realm of conjecture and wishful thinking; never grounded on any valid or coherent reasoning. For the most part, I find the “answers“, if one could call them that, pathetic and embarrassing.

It is fortunately a fine indicator why God remains to be nothing more than a fallacy; concocted very sadly by that very imaginative brain of ours to suppress our fears of the unknown; our fear of suffering and of death.

As I see it, Mankind has poisoned itself with so much of deceit that the only cure is a transvaluation of values; an assessment of what we want to become, of the things we fear and how we overcome that fear by embracing its inevitability in life rather than considering it a taboo subject, to be laced with euphemisms and superstition.

Yahweh, God, Allah – it doesn’t matter what you call it; it is ultimately an obsolete idea warranting speedy disposal. The human mind needs to be rejuvenated with pride, courage and independence; purely human values critical to the development of a just, free and progressive class of Men and Women.

LB: In his last post, the author claimed to have been up till 5.00a.m. but promised to work on his bio blurb for his next post. We remain hopeful.


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Posts by Aston Paiva

Posted on 13 October 2010. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0.

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38 Responses to Twilight of the Gods

  1. Great blog, I am going to spend more time reading about this subject

  2. Pingback: The Glory of God | LoyarBurok

  3. "Perhaps we are not so different after all."

    The less aware would not notice or be the wiser. After a bout of circular logic, recidivism via a subtler form proselytization. Which is still proselytization. No matter how gently you push, and no matter how pleasant the stimulation, its still pushing and removes free will. Spiritual Ethics PLEASE.

    Say no to peddlers of 'spiritual' drugs. If you value your soul, hang around people who let you apply free will in your choice of spirituality or faith than those who manipulate you.

    In religion there can be no compulsion. (Surah 2:256)

  4. LN

    Hi all,

    I would like to just correct any misperception that some here would have that I am proselytizing. Of course it is easy to think/feel that I am because I am specifically quoting examples related to Christian literature. I am merely speaking from that point of view as I do not have enough information about other faiths. If however you have concluded that I am practising spiritual rudeness, then I offer my apologies.

    It is true that we should appreciate good things that happen and fix things when bad things happen. Again, speaking from a believer's POV, we see most things in the context of our faith.

    A non-believer will see it from the context of science. Having said this, believers do not think that God decided leaves should be green so that's why it's green. We tend to believe that God is a creator of everything, even Physics is the gift to humankind. So it's not that we ascribe mysteries to everything.

    As for the argument that things happen against the odds, true also. Maybe miracles of the world and the universe can be explained by the science of probability, only of a much larger scale. But for believers, the source of everything is God as mentioned in the above para. By that same token, because humankind's knowledge is limited and has been designed so, the "blanks" are left for both believer and non-believer to interpret. That is how believers view it.

    Of course, believers and non-believers are at direct opposites of each other. And no discussion can go on without some measure of passion. If it's not already implied, I'd like to stress that I enjoyed the article and the comments. It continues to amaze me how we are curious about our existence and search for answers after all these centuries. Perhaps we are not so different after all.

  5. vigilantcitizen

    Very interesting observation Aston.

    You believe that God is a "fallacy; concocted very sadly by that very imaginative brain of ours to suppress our fears of the unknown; our fear of suffering and of death".

    You believe this because there was never a grounded, valid and coherent reasoning on the existence of God. Thus the conclusion is as quoted above.

    Why one would wonder can't you find a grounded, valid and coherent reasoning to all your questions? Have you not used your "brain, that is the most advanced organic material in the universe, that is responsible for the finest works of art and the most marvelous of scientific theories and observations to reason the existence of God? I'm pretty sure you've exhausted your brain on this subject, couldn't find the answer you're looking for and "conveniently" concluded that God is a "fallacy".

    As a believer, the answers to all our questions is God. It looks simple and "convenient" isn't it? Q: Who created us? A: God. Q: Why are we here? A: Because God wanted us here. Q: Who created God? A: God knows.

    You are right about the brain. As a believer, i think it's the most sacred creation and gift from God to the human race. And because we "the believers" acknowledged that the brain is something that was not a result of some particles hundreds of gazillion years ago coming together to form it or God forbid from a monkey, that it's a gift from God, we acknowledged that it can be taken away from us and it has limitations. This "acknowledgement" is something called "FAITH".This faith is guided by Books for some religions and a structured belief system for others.

    The faith in God has liberated us from fear of the unknown. After all, there is nothing that's unknown to us..the answer to all is God.

    Thanks for writing this article Aston. We need more good articles like this!

  6. Aston Paiva

    Folks,

    I'd like to thank everyone here for expressing your opinions and ideas. I'm tremendously grateful for each and every reply and I have read all of them.

    I see no questions that have remained unanswered. Commentators seemed to have answered each other and I think to say anything more here would be superfluous on my part.

    I certainly hope everyone had a fun exchange and left feeling a little bit more enlightened. I have however just noticed Lingswaran's reply to this piece of mine and I shall be replying to him on the comment's section shortly. Stay tuned for that.

    Once again, thanks everyone for your input. They are much appreciated.

    Regards,

    Aston

  7. Pingback: The Republic of God | LoyarBurok

  8. lim bin ganesan

    It is nice to see that the response here is very constructive. Just like to add some fun. Imagine this fictitious scenario where all the GODS from different believe/religion gathered. THEY would like to meet THEIR worshipers. A grand function was organized where people from all kind of religion gathered and all attention were onto the empty stage. First JESUS appear on the stage, there was a big commotion as a lot of people tried to get closer to the stage. JESUS talked to the followers, blessed them and ask them to give way so that the next GOD greet his people. Next came BUDDHA and the same thing happened. Many rushed to the stage. Again BUDDHA dispersed the crowd so that the next GOD can bless his people.

    The third GOD came out to the center of the stage but the crowd were silent and appeared confused. Nobody tried to climb up the stage. Please reason out who is the GOD on the stage and why? Please give a logical explanation even though this is just a imaginary situation.

  9. Joel S

    @LN

    Ever heard the phrase "beating the odds?"

    Now kindly tie that to "confabulation"

    You should arrive at your definition of "miracles"

    Explaining miracles are just as good as explaining why the dude down the street won a lotter ticket.

    One should live life as it is. Bad things happen, fix it, good things happen, seize the opportunity, be thankful, and don't jinx it. But when you try and give a story over something, really, you're just looking too much into things.

  10. IsayNo2ISA

    It is based on peer reviewed scientific/academic research paper that I know my brain is wired to seek out a higher being. It is not based on any holy book.

    For hundred thousands of years, our ancestors are praying to one or multiple higher beings. This is deeply encoded in our genes and our DNA. In time of despair, we instinctively hope or would pray to such a higher being. Whether these prayers are answered is another story. But our brain is indeed wired to believe in a higher being. It would take many thousand years to unwire this wiring.

  11. IsayNo2ISA

    Actually, there are scientific answers to these questions.

    Pi doesn't make a circle. It's merely a constant that help to measure/calculate the circumference and area of a circle.

    Why was there a big bang? It's because the energy field in existence was not balance, hence the law of physics took over.

    Why gravity exist? Because matter exist. Every matter has in it several energy field. Gravity is only one of it. Again, this is explained in physics.

    Earth is not really a perfect sphere. Because of the spin of the earth it is actually slightly flatten or oblate ellipsoidal shaped. Not a perfect ball shape.

    The sky is blue because of the Rayleigh effect allowing red, yellow, and other longer wavelength spectrum of colors to pass through while scattering the shorter wavelength blue color. So, it appears blue to us because where ever we see, the scattered blue color light is the one that reached our eyes. That's why the sun appear yellowish in mid day, orange and red in early morning and late evening. Because these are the light that reaches our eyes when we look at the sun.

    The tree leaves are green in color because green is the color of chlorophyll. Tree leaves need chlorophyll for photosynthesis. The chemical combination of chlorophyll reflect green light and absorb blue and red light. Hence, the leave is green in color. Again, explained by physics and chemistry.

    There is living proof of evolution around us. This is especially true in Mekong River. Where evidence of evolution of species is discovered and scientifically documented.

    We breathe oxygen because we are carbon based organism that needs oxygen to harvest the energy from food that we consumed. But too much oxygen could be poisonous to us. We humans and other living organism had evolved to live in the earth environment with about 21% of oxygen in the atmosphere. But Scientist have found living organism that do not need oxygen to survive in remote part of the earth. So, oxygen is not a must for life. But whether it is a must for intelligent life, we do not know, yet.

    The explanation of God and God's existence in all our belief system that exist today is anything but perfect. If God is perfect why is the world then created by God is not perfect? The question really is this, how could a perfect being create something that is not perfect? If God is a perfect being, surely, all things created by God should be perfect. If things created by God is not perfect, then there is only one explanation that can explain why it is so…

  12. My brain is wired that I need such a higher being to exist so that I could seek it for comfort and when I was distraught, this believe would fulfill my needs of a hope for a better future. But I also know that my biological brain would seek out and cry out to a higher being when I feel vulnerable and when I feel weak.

    If you go strictly by any holy book, this is not what 'God' (if theres's such a thing) gave man the gift of free will for. And theres only a perception of being wired, when in reality anything goes – man is a limited form of life with limited perception, so don't imagine a single text from a single culture sums anything up, but exercise your free will instead by at least voting ethically and not for anyone pro-Apartheid in GE13.

  13. LN :

    ". . . Also, none of you have been able to explain the existence of miracles. How the host (the sacred bread eaten during communion at a Mass) turns into flesh in a worshipper’s mouth; how believers regain their health after being proclaimed terminally ill, etc. . . . We should simply respect each other’s perspective."

    Bla bla bla . . . by going on and on about Christianity is disrespecting perspectives of all non-Christians here. Proselytization is offensive in a multi-faith country. Stop throwing at us your Christian propaganda, it's the last thing we need now. Spiritual harrassment is spiritual rudeness.

  14. LN

    Hi to all again,

    All I'm saying is that non-believers needn't dismiss believers because if non-believers can say it's more humble to admit we don't know all the answers rather than attribute our lack of knowledge to a "construct", I'm sure you can also respect believers for what they believe in and just say that you don't understand their logic.

    There's no need to be condescending.

    Also, none of you have been able to explain the existence of miracles. How the host (the sacred bread eaten during communion at a Mass) turns into flesh in a worshipper's mouth; how believers regain their health after being proclaimed terminally ill, etc. You have not experienced possession nor attended an exorcism. You have not been slain by the spirit. For you all, there MUST be an explanation for everything, failing which you wait for Science to come up with the answers.

    For believers, Science is no foe. If you think so, you must still carry old prejudices based on the past. Believers believe that human beings will always be limited in their knowledge. We are given enough to do what is necessary to survive and thrive even as the conditions of the planet change but we will never know all the answers. Believers also therefore look at new inventions and discoveries with caution. Only because all good ones may be abused as a result of the greed of mankind. So I don't understand why non-believers insist that believers are just a bunch of walking emotions. Reason is always employed (unless you're a fanatic with ill intentions).

    "God" however you choose to call Him/Her/It is good. He/She/It is always good. he is the source of good. "Baal" was simply a man-made god used as an example to not fall into the trap of idolatry. "Baal" along with other gods mentioned in the Old Testament are just representations of the kind of idolatry we may fall into in this day and age – being addicted to drugs, sex, money, power, fame, immortality, video games, etc. So how can any of these things which are negative past the moderation levels be a source of good? Unless you're trying to imply that if someone does well in the name of his dog which is what he/she worships, then what happens? Well, God believes that if you do GOOD, you are invoking Him anyway even if you think it's coming from your dog. But I hardly think this is a probable situation.

    "Truth". Is there absolute Truth? Even Truth can be manipulated by human beings. Truth is also what the majority believes in. But does that make it Truth? Can scientists fake numbers and interpretations of numbers? It's possible. Research people fudge data all the time to look good at presentations. If Truth is what is irrefutable, i.e dinosaurs DO exist because there are fossils to prove it, then all people of the faith have to fall upon is what a bunch of really ancient believers said in their scribbles a long time ago because nobody had a camera to catch Jesus rising into Heaven. But therein, lies faith.

    "God works in mysterious ways". I dislike that phrase. God simply works differently from us. Thinks differently from us. We do not have the mind of God even if we may be made in His image because otherwise everybody will just think he's supreme above others. But we already see people behaving like God, no? Who decides that a fellow man should die? Who stands there and just decides that some rakyat will get better treatment than others? I think human beings, while amazing creatures with tremendous potential to do good, also have tremendous potential to maim and destroy. Believers choose to submit themselves to a check and balance called God. Foolish to non-believers maybe. But believers have a different perspective. We should simply respect each other's perspective.

  15. jb

    i believe in god, simply. 1+2=3. this is simple, but why. Why PI is there creating the circle. Why did big bang start. why planet is round, why gravity is there. Is all things allocate by itself?

    If you start walking on a road, think. Why the sky blue, why the tree green, and why the stone allocate anywhere. See darwin, he say people are a revolution. but how many statistically human evolve from apes? why apes become apes? Why apes don't become intelligent enough to invade humans? And why we need to use oxygen for breathing?

    What god does doesn't can compare to tiny brain of us. There is too much, and even if you have a big brain size as a planet also you cannot fill all the details inside it.

    So that is why people is always not superior. Even we think we right, we don't know we would wrong. if god wrong, that is not a god. there will be imperfect things, and god always perfect and unimaginable.

  16. IsayNo2ISA

    I believe in the existence of a higher being, some call this higher being god. But I do not believe that this higher being is interested in my daily live, and nor do I believe that this higher being is all good, omnipresent and omnipotent. Because if this higher being is all good, omnipresent and omnipotent, there would exist no logical argument to explain why there is evil and bad things in this world. The existence of evil and bad thing is itself proof that there is no such all good, omnipresent, and omnipotent being.

    But I still believe in the existence of a higher being. It is because my brain is wired such a way. My brain is wired that I need such a higher being to exist so that I could seek it for comfort and when I was distraught, this believe would fulfill my needs of a hope for a better future.

    I fully understand that my believe is one based on faith. Which just mean that it is illogical and perhaps even purely imaginary and fake. But I also know that my biological brain would seek out and cry out to a higher being when I feel vulnerable and when I feel weak.

    This sum up my belief.

  17. Cowwithaheart

    Dear Amha,

    Both god and imaginary friend cannot be invoked. Pls kindly provide examples to the contrary, if you don't mind.

  18. Amha bin Buang

    Dear Cowwiththeheart,

    Many thanks for your response. I sincerely doubt it that if and when it comes to the crunch, you will be able to invoke your imaginary friend!

    Warmest regards

  19. Cowwithaheart

    Mr Wong,

    "If God does not exist, where does the power of human reasoning come from? Can Reason originate from Unreason?"

    A non sequitur, Mr Wong. Is it any more logical to attribute human reasoning to god, than to imply that Reason can stem from Unreason?

    "So, what is your explanation for the origin of the human mind?"

    The human mind is closely, if not entirely, related to the human brain. Evolution and physiological changes of the human brain has been occurring for hundred of thousands of years, and will continue to do so surely but slowly for as long as the human species survive. Science cannot explain everything, but surely it is more honest and grounded than saying "oh, it must be god!".

    What is your argument to support the notion of god?

    Amha bin Buang,

    If you ask me (not that you did, please pardon my unsolicited opinion), calling for god is as effective as calling an imaginary friend to your aid.

  20. Amha bin Buang

    Dear Aston,

    In your moment of need and survival, who do you call for?

  21. 1) Freedom from Apartheid/Fascism

    2) Freedom from Religious-Persecution/Religious-Supremacy.

    3) Equality for all ethnicities and faiths in all aspects of policy, Law and Constitution.

    This article sums up item 2. Even as minorities struggle for items 1 and 3, Muslims have a long fight ahead of them to have item 2. I believe that the State Muftis of today are more sensitive than a decade or 3 ago. Mankind needs to be free as much as he can achieve, even in 1 lifetime. Hope all the other subtle and spiritual abuses happening ALL the time will become recordable and preventable crimes.

  22. awangjala

    Free at last. Free at last.

  23. He do not look like what man termed as GOD!!

    If there is a creator, IT may not seems to be the "GOD" that most people are observing or preaching today.

    Our universe and our galaxy was born 13 billion and 3 billion years ago respectively, Dinosaurs existed for 200 million year ago. Snakes and crooks were there 20 million years ago. Snakes are powerful and deadly so they didn't evolve as much during this period.

    Homo sapiens existed only 200 thousand years ago and was reduced to a population of only 100 thousand, at 100 thousand years ago. It was only through team work and the evolution of their vocal cord that allowed them to make more sound expression that they shared their experience to survive that period.

    We humans are the weakest species amount all. We are the weakest in climbing, jumping, running and worse of all with inferior teeth and muscles. For survivor instinct, under this circumstances our brain evolved to what we are today.

    Religion was only introduced recently. For 15 billion years, our universe expanded simple following the law of physics constantly without failing (the law of physics)

    If something will to create the universe, that something or "GOD" simply did not interfere any further after the initial creation.

    Again, HE do not look like what man term as GOD.

  24. Wong Fook Meng

    Dear Aston,

    Really refreshing to read your piece which is written with stark honesty and good language. You had certainly applied your mind to it.

    In your article, you had extolled the powers of the human mind. But, if God does not exist, where does the power of human reasoning come from? Can Reason originate from Unreason?

    You had dismissed the answers given by believers as pathetic and embarassing. So, what is your explanation for the origin of the human mind? Your answers had to held against the same intellectual benchmark that you set for others. In other words, or rather in your own words, your answer should not be in the realm of conjecture or wishful thinking, but must be grounded in valid and coherent reasoning.

    Looking forward to your reasonable answer!

    Regards,

    Wong Fook Meng

    Malacca

  25. Chandran

    Patrick,

    Read "The Religion of Man" by Rabindranath Tagore.You may find some answers.

  26. Nice one Aston, I didn't expect to see this issue surface on a Malaysian website.

    Unfortunately while homosexuality is slowly gaining a modicum of much needed acceptance, nobody's fighting for atheist/agnostic rights in this country.

    Perhaps this has something to do with the fact that our very constitution insists we must subscribe to a monotheistic religion.

    I hope I live long enough to see the day when religion becomes as socially unacceptable as smoking.

    There is no such thing as harmless religious belief. Subscribing to any of these obsolete old world doctrines simply means you are by proxy supporting a long and bloody history of senseless violence, oppression, racism and exclusionism.

    People like Mother Theresa did good DESPITE her misguided beliefs, not because of them.

  27. They'll accuse you of Agnostic Chauvinism but it is true that Agnostics have been severely sidelined for centuries even as abuses by those who have faith are everywhere even now. With a sense of ethics and principles, free will and willingness to make space for all demographics, any and all god or mortal will have a place here.

    Absolutism is for the lazy, so the Agnostic or Gnostic, Animist, Polytheist or Monotheist who can accept diversity will be the best expressions of humanity by their willingness to SHARE to as great a degree as possible, and there is indeed space and it is indeed possible.

    This is what can make Earth special one day if Alien worlds of sufficient technological sophistication are ever found. The sheer diversity of ethnicity, sub-cultural, cultural and religious expression as a sign of a peaceful and diversity tolerant nature. Remember though, that proselytization is also chauvinism. Even though subtle an well intended, proselytization would be likely viewed as a form of cultural attack on alien races, so be ready to :- Agree to Disagree.

  28. Allan

    @LN

    If you stepped back to look at it, the arguments you've put forward are very utilitarian. It all seems good if we accept that the consequence of faith/belief is good. It does not address the question of Truth, which is what Aston Paiva seems to be getting at.

    Perhaps you will share the atheist perspective if the 'agents' in your analogies were appealing to dead Gods demonized by Christianity.

    A footballer who gains confidence from making the sign of Ba'al, is that a good thing or a bad thing? Is it not mere illusion? Then it is not truth, based on fact or reality.

    How else does that faith compel him to model his life? His childrens' lives? His behaviour with friends? With society?

    Does it not then depend on what the worship of Ba'al entails?

    Mother Teresa, according to her fans, saved many dying children, but according to her detractors only did the least to save their souls and advance the cause of the Church (http://www.newstatesman.com/200508220019). Perhaps you see nothing wrong in such a faith-guided action. What if the action was in the interest of a different faith. What if M. Teresa was a Jehovah's Witness and she saves all these children that they might learn to lead a life free of blood-transfusions and worldly-mingling? Do you still praise her? Her faith?

    This is not to say that the good deeds performed by devout are not always good in themselves. But as Paiva asks if the devout attribute all merit to a Being that is entirely fictitious, is "really the stagnation of your ability to be what you can be".

    A religious charity worker's folly lies not in the good deed but on the premises that led to the good deed.

    Is it not more to marvel at that the good deed was performed simply from the shared humanity? The fundamental sense that suffering needs to be addressed? Instead of inviting some celestial Cause into the picture?

    Can you not see then that to submit to God must be limiting on human endeavour?

  29. Marc

    well you've put several arguments against religion in a nutshell. But it'll take a whole book(or several) to convince a devout man of anything other than what he holds to be 'true'

  30. Joel S

    Aston,

    I don’t think god and religion should be used so interchangeably.

    I simply like to think of God as an unknown (not that he will be the answer to all unknowns) but just simply as a reminder, that we have yet more to learn. And unknown = hope/fear, but that hope stands a share of it, is satisfactory enough.

    (And on a totally random note, I also like to think of him as being the source of life that animates the animal — because up till this day, no one can say for certain that if you have every single part of an animal, and if you are able to stitch them up together, and to provide the necessary “kick” to it, that it will come alive — i mean hello, we only ventured to a thing as complicated as a sheep and still, no success. dolly baa baa)

    But I do agree that religion robs us of our autonomy. The only thing that separates us from other species is the autonomy of our will. And this is reflected through our ability to reason. The rationality behind our actions should be our guiding principle, not anything else.

    Lets not turn this into a debate between deontology and consequentialism… god it is so old and tedious :( But rather, lets very briefly look at the problems associated with religion.

    At its core, every religion is flooded with presupposed values, values of which if one does not hold, the religion does not affect (tell against). Hence, religious warfare is inevitable.

    Most notable is the muslims’ view of a holy woman (or they call wanita suci), which is the best kind of wife a man can have. For that reason, they would look at non-muslim girls as unholy, and it creates in them a sense of disgust (or that they have a tendency to look down on such women).

    Others, who do not share this value, view them as chauvinists (because the presupposed value seems to put women as subjected to men), and this too creates in them, a feeling of disgust. And so we have people getting disgusted at one another, simply because in a difference in held values (the seed of which is planted through differing religions). Note that my examples are very simple and limited for point of discussion!

    Moving on..

    But even as practical anthropology, quite often, it falls apart just as well. When the bible says, thou shall not kill, we find ourselves in this position of a lack of definition. Euthanasia, abortion of rapist’s baby, self-defense .. non of these shades of grey it instructs, so we see that what it commands is simply a huge label for more complicated matters that up till this day are still in debate, and every state stands on a different ground.

    The only reason why religion is so addictive is because it hits on sentiments, instead of reasoning. Hence the popular conversation killer quote: “god works in mysterious ways” Reasoning dies here, and sentiments thrive.

    Go ahead and try and ask a christian: “hey i thought the bible said thou shall not lie, but didn’t david lie to king saul in order to escape? if he didn’t lie, would we even have jesus (to which the bible had prophesied to be a descendant of david?)”

    Religion, not god, is what is confusing. And in a world that is becoming smaller, we need an ethical system that is universalizable. One that is founded on reasoning and contracting.

    @WONG FOOK MENG: perhaps REASON is GOD? Just a thought.

  31. klusener

    very good satire.

  32. Cowwithaheart

    Hi LN,

    Your comments reminded me of a saying by Karl Marx – that religion is the opium of the people. Following your line of thought, one should believe in god(s) because of the innumerable benefits offered by, or arise from religion. Your arguments for religion/god are purely experiential, subjective, emotive and very much heavily reliant on the "feel good" factor.

    If religion neither nor inspire nor motivate, should we still believe in a supernatural, omnipresent, omniscience being? Or, now devoid of any practical purposes(namely to smooth the rough edges of life and act as a stopgap explanation for the unknown and unknowable), believer should abandon religion and god in flocks?

    We should ask ourselves the tough questions, with intellectual rigour and maturity – is there a god and what proof there is to substantiate its existence? It is more humble to admit that we don't know much about our existence and how life came about, than to perceive the universe as infinitely vast space created by god with us humans at its centre.

  33. Patrick

    I found your statement, Man is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent,rather interesting. Could you explain further?

  34. LN

    Cheers for sharing your views.

    I believe in God though. And in this world, there are quite a number of believers as well as non-believers. So I also believe that one should not assume a supreme position over another by ridiculing the other's beliefs or inadequate defense of their beliefs as being "embarrassing and pathetic".

    I also wonder why you say that to submit to God is to limit oneself. Have you ever considered that some people achieve a lot via their beliefs? Kaka crosses himself whenever he scores a goal. If you're a non believer, you may dismiss it as a silly thing and ask why he's thanking God when it's clearly his own talents and a measure of luck and timing that helped him. If you're a believer like him, you might gain your confidence in your skills from that belief and yes, that may possibly help you be a better player, too.

    Look at Mother Theresa. She's done a lot of good. One wonders how she could have achieved it. She says it's God's power. You may disagree and call her a fool for going through all that hardship and personal suffering to help tons of people. But the fact is, she helped tons of people with that belief.

    Every day, thousands of believers are making a difference to other people's lives via their beliefs. They take a break from work or university and go off to Africa or India or disaster-hit areas to give themselves to others. These things don't get sensationalised or published you know – just the bad stuff about tower bombers, naughty priests and overly rich pastors because human beings (as wonderful as they are) just love bad news or hey, maybe there IS a propaganda against the Church, who knows.

    You could also argue that an equal number of non-believers do charity work. Well, good for them, too. But my point is, sometimes people need to believe in something to get moving. Are they weaker? Maybe. But believers, true believers don't give a toss about being seen as weak if that's how the world wants to view them. Good deeds are good deeds.

    If you haven't had a spiritual experience, then it is understandable that you cannot imagine another person having one. Miracles of disappearing cancer cells for example. One week, a man has 3 months to live. Another, the guy is proclaimed to be cancer free. Is this a Darwinist evolution of cancer cells? I don't know. Nobody knows. Doctor also doesn't know. Doctor is not a believer so Doctor just discharge patient and report says "no sign of malignant growth cells consistent with bla bla bla". It's not the movies where the Doctor goes on shouting to the world that he's just witnessed God at work and finally God does appear to him.

    The reason why believers have such a tough time articulating the reasons for their belief is because at the end of the day, we acknowledge that we don't have answers to everything. If we knew everything, we would not need God. But you see, that is precisely why the word "faith" exists. If you knew everything, faith wouldn't be needed. It's only if you cannot see but believe that you have faith. And if you can take that leap, great things happen (as they have happened to numerous people who believe).

  35. 4RAKYAT

    sure abdulhaleem 1208pm,

    there is nothing wrong to be a believer like there is nothing wrong to be a drinker or a smoker.

    just keep it private and to yourself and dont impose on other people.

    then, we're cool.

  36. 4RAKYAT

    we should study religion like we study history and literature.

    4RAKYAT

  37. abdulhaleem

    I don't think anything wrong to be a believer. What is wrong is being religious fanatics and manipulation of it.