[UPDATED on 14 October 2010: Thank you everyone for stopping by LoyarBurok and caring to comment on this episode. It has been an educational experience for all of us. If you are new here, kindly take time to read our Terms of Use. Loyarburok does not moderate or monitor comments unless we are informed and directed to particular comments which may need to be edited, deleted or categorised as spam.
In the case of Pamela’s video, LoyarBurok had no alternative but to edit the original video which showed Pamela’s personal details. We took this step after numerous comments inciting hatred were published while at the same time exposing the said details, and our attention was directed to these comments.
On the issue of the editor’s voice raised by Jen Li, Pete and others, kindly note that there is only ONE Lord Bobo Barnabus, The Wonder Typewriting Monkey, who is the General Chief Editor of this blawg (see again our Terms of Use). We have a team of LoyarBurokkers who regularly work behind the scenes by curating and posting new material, updating this blawg etc. However, no one writes or speaks as the editor of this blawg save for Lord Bobo, and no one may usurp the Lord’s great powers!
Happy LoyarBurokking!]
A commentary on the intimidatory responses that made police intimidation look tame.
Of late, there is a lot of talk about civil society movements gaining momentum and mass in Malaysia. It’s heralded as the coming of a third force, the keeper of checks and balances, social justice championed by society. I was very hopeful until I saw the utterly uncivilised comments in response to Pamela’s police intimidation video.
As part of the editorial team here, I was pleasantly surprised at the record breaking speed at which the video was gaining circulation and comments. The purpose of making public such a video, especially on a site like LoyarBurok, is to encourage public debate and discussion. Comments/brick-bats, supporters/detractors are all part and parcel of the free and open discourse we seek. However, two things about the bulk of the negative responses perturbed me: (i) The violence and intimation by fellow citizens. (ii) The narrow view taken in contextualising the video.
Shut-up you stupid bitch, you should be raped!
Many of the comments are fine examples of violence against women. Browse through the comments on this blawg alone and you will see the gender-based violence in the words. The use of derogatory labels amounted to sexually harassment. The intimidatory tone worse than that inflicted by the police.
I wonder if the video was taken by a Peter and not a Pamela, would there be this much personal attacks, threats, sexual jibes, and harassment? No doubt, there will still be people of the opinion that the civilian should have been more “respectful”, but ever stop to wonder would the critical comments be more objective and focused on the incident? Would it still be fuelled by the indoctrination of women as the second sex? Do you expect a woman to be more of a “lady”? Would you think “This rude bitch damn cari pasal la.” or “This guy should’ve not lost his cool la.”
On the surface it may be just words on the internet posted by a faceless nickname. But online harassment and violence is just violence against women taking on the latest platform. Women have long been fighting to be heard, to have a voice, to not be a labelled “bitch” when a fellow male doing the same is called “assertive.”
Ooh reality video, let’s lynch the bad guy!
When I uploaded this “fragmented” video, I did not expect it to be become a contest of who’s right and who’s wrong. This finger-pointing paints a certain representation that Malaysians in general do not know how to agree to disagree nor can we discuss differing views in a civilised manner without attacking each other. (No wonder things get ridiculously extreme when discussing matters related to race) We seem to be locked in zero-sum assessments.
The video raises many points of debate and it would be a shame if it was viewed solely with the intention of picking who is in the wrong and ending the discussion there. What can we do when in doubt of whether the person is actually a policeman? Should we just apologise whenever we are flagged by police to increase our chances of being let off? What if we chose to insist on our innocence? What if apologising didn’t work? Where do we draw the line between kow-tow and being respectful? Do authorities deserve extra respect? I’m sure there are other more astute points of debate, unfortunately even these simple ones I posed were hardly touched by commentators.
The video also did not show what the situation was like before the civilian decided to record the incident. Being stopped by the police, unsure of whether you had actually broken the law, unsure of whether you are hearing hints for bribery – can be an unnerving episode to some if not most people. Understandably one of the questions raised by such a video, would be who was in the right. What was surprising is the speed and decisiveness in which this “judgment” was dispensed inspite of the many unknowns to the viewer of the video. In most countries, it is the police that are held on a higher standard, not the civilians that they have been entrusted with the duty of “policing.”
LB: Ong Jo-Lene really doesn’t know how to describe herself but she has plenty to say at Seksualiti Merdeka.
castello, i agree with u :)
The ppl who are starting this racism thing is the "M" themselves!
Nobody started talking about racism at all.THis video has got nothing to do with racism !
Its just that the "M" feel attacked because they are the same race with the policemen.
So since the girl,who is chinese verbally attack the policemen,the "M"s in the Msia accept it as a attack towards them!
How stupid can it be! But this is true.
I can guarantee if the policemen were chinese,no racism issues would have started.Basically,the women named Pamela is just plain stupid.
But then again, why o why do the 'M's always have to start racism issues over a small blardy matter? Are they just too sensitive?
this pamela is the most stupidest girl on earth!
go back la stupid!
blablabla : Sama je semua. Orang cina pun banyak kutuk belakang2(atau depan2 dalam bahasa mandarin/kantonis/hakkan/hokkien). Haiya, malas nak bangkitkan je apa yang ultra-kiasu dah buat, sebab aku pun tak sokong orang2 yang sebarkan semngat perkauman, orang melayu pun ada yang ultra macam Perkasa. Moga Malaysia akan datang lebih aman.
Red yang ada avatar : Patutlah aku rasa cam pelik je, pendirian korang berbeza 100% dan aku sokong kebanyakan pendapat kau.
Pada yang sokong Pam : Sudahlah memang jelas perempuan sengal tu nak manipulasi keadaan, berlakon jadi mangsa. Jangan jadi bebal sangat sampai tak boleh nampak benda tu. dan polis Malaysia, atau rakyat Msia keseluruhannya memang tidak profesional. Kalau profesional, mangkuk Pamela Lim ni tak buat apa yang dia dah buat.
Pada yang kritik Pamela : Tolong jangan timbulkan isu perkauman di sini. malu la sikit.
She should have signed the damn summons, then gone to the police station to fight her case(and get it overturned or wtvr). While there she could have reported them for soliciting a bribe(if that's really what they did).
Rolling up her window in their faces like they were some annoying salesmen soliciting a purchase however, is just disrespectful.
Who the hell does she think she is? ugh, reminds me of rosmah for some reason haha
All hail Lord Bobo Barnabus!Sorry. I wrongly referred to the author of this piece as the Editor.
agree with you, I do, Castello.
thanks for sharing your 1 cent ;)
Hi all,
Let us not focus on the racial issue, but more on the law and consumer right issue here.
I try searching for malaysian law concerning using the handphone while driving but i couldn't find any in the web, but i found something from our neighbouring country's law;
http://www.sgcarmart.com/news/writeup.php?AID=24
So i believe (if the same law applies here) miss pam here had make an offence when she hold her handphone single-hand and used it while driving on the road.
You can make video recording of the situation, the police chief say so, but u should be careful when u make the recording public and issued a statement in public concerning the issue. The police force can file a defamation/slander suit against u, if there is any malicious expression in your statement.
One more thing, u know the policemen that stopped u are low ranking officers, speak in Bahasa Malaysia lah… don't try to embarass them by asking them what 'intimidating' means in english. It is your right to speak in english, but ethically use your moral sense….
just my 1 cent….
Without knowing the whole picture, we would not be able to conclude whether Miss Lim was rude or the two policemen were trying to be difficult. I would not comment.
Let's me share with you my experience with traffic police.
I had lived in Malaysia for 30 years, in USA for 3 years and in the little red dot in past 10 years (still going to Johor several times a month) and I had visited many countries. In the scale of 1-10 (worst to best), I would say USA is 9, Singapore 8, and Malaysia is , may be, 3 or 4, no better than Indonesia.
Malaysia police (not just traffic police) not only has image problem. It has a problem…
Ted
Thank you everyone for stopping by LoyarBurok and caring to comment on this episode. It has been an educational experience for all of us. If you are new here, kindly take time to read our Terms of Use. Loyarburok does not moderate or monitor comments unless we are informed and directed to particular comments which may need to be edited, deleted or categorised as spam.
In the case of Pamela's video, LoyarBurok had no alternative but to edit the original video which showed Pamela's personal details. We took this step after numerous comments inciting hatred were published while at the same time exposing the said details, and our attention was directed to these comments.
On the issue of the editor's voice raised by Jen Li, kindly note that there is only ONE Lord Bobo Barnabus, The Wonder Typewriting Monkey, who is the General Chief Editor of this blawg (see again our Terms of Use). We have a team of LoyarBurokkers who regularly work behind the scenes by curating and posting new material, updating this blawg etc. However, no one writes or speaks as the editor of this blawg save for Lord Bobo, and no one may usurp the Lord's great powers!
Happy LoyarBurokking!
Pam,
As i'm utterly disturbed with all these personal backlashes against u, one must ponder few layers on said issue. there's no right and wrong here. point of view must be respected yet one can't expect to shove it down in another's throat. u do have a valid point here but perhaps out of emotional defense, u mistakenly raised a piece of racial issue. i belive the point of publishing the video is not to incite hatred, it's just to tell how the incident was not being handle professionally by the officers. one will say that rude is morally offensive but still as an officer, they should not get hold by their emotion. to forgive is way better than to appologize. as what Syah said, u don't have to bring up racial issue. individual is rotten, but not the ethnic they belong. we are still learning to be better in life, right? keep ur heads up and be succesful in your life ahead. God bless..
Jo-lene,
mindset is a bogus entity to begin with. i do agree that the whole long-winded hits on said video had went astray. still, one view will always differ with another. we share the same view but others may not. like a teacher that educates, not all students will listen. rather than focussing on those who will never abide and fails later in life, be proud of those who understand and turn out being succesfull. from our part, we will keep on preaching for the better.
This is totally bullshit! The video clip in youtube has been set in private, people wasted their time for commenting and discussing the whole incident. Youtube is such a powerful media, not only youtube but the whole internet is a powerful media to draw different opinions from all around the world. So if you couldn't accept the negative comments, why do you post the video in youtube at the first place. In the vid Pamela keep saying cililian right,hak apa apa apa, so now she not allow us to speak what we thought about the video and just remove it??? where is the freedom of speech? mana hak saya in the demoracy country??
You said "When I uploaded this “fragmented” video, I did not expect it to be become a contest of who’s right and who’s wrong. This finger-pointing paints a certain representation that Malaysians in general do not know how to agree to disagree nor can we discuss differing views in a civilised manner without attacking each other. "
This is even bullshit, there were over 5000++ comments in the youtube clip, and i read most of them, i would say more than 70% of people are actually are using the civilised manner to discuss about this incident, so you couldn't just because of another 30% of people were using violence words then you include the whole group of Malaysian are not civilised??? it is totally unfair to the people who actually giving a proper opinions. If the vid was't for discussing who is right and who is wrong, then what is the point of posting such a vid?? just because we didn't give you what you expected it doesn't make us uncivilsed~ we gave comment of what we felt when we saw the vid, it is not Comprehension testing and we can only answer the questions that the teacher set~ the whole incident is very subjective so it will lead to other sub questions…
You said the question we should reply should be bla bla bla… and yes, plentty of people in youtube already answered those questions, those people telling you how to deal with the police, and what you shouldn't do and what you should do etc… there were soooo many comments in the youtube that i just couldn't tell you all. I wonder did you actually read the comments in youtube or not?? or you just simply picked a few violence comments to read??
If you talk about we didn't know the Part 1 story and giving the wrong comments, then you should have blaming youself. Because the VID you post we could only see what it is in the vid, which is Pamela being rude and kurang ajar, because that is what we saw in the vid. So you shouldn't have post it at the first place as you only got 2nd part of the incident which showing how rude and no cooperative Pamela is.
Whether the Polices are true or false? This is even bullshit.From what she said in the vid, Pamela knew the police were true, because she keep saying she will report them bla bla bla… and she said she know the right this and that, if she really in doubt, why not just call the 999 and proof whether they are true cops or not? but wasting the cellphone for recording??
I believe the cops might have asking bribe from Pamela, ok, Pamela refuse to pay the bribe, but in the Vid the cops already follow the procedure gave her the summon, why didn't she just cooporate sign and go, she can report about this to the authority department later on right? she seems like so manipulative in the whole situation there. didnt she said she got their name or something bla bla bla??
And then, she doesn't admit she broke the rule for using cellphone during driving. If she did, she already sign and go, habis cerita, but she instead writing something nonsense whatever on the summon.
And dont tell me she scare to follow them back to Balai, because the police asked her to follow them not asked her to ride on their motor, if anything went wrong, she could just drive and go! she is in the car, am i right?They asked her go to police station because she pervert the course of justice(??????) which is a serious rule she broke, it doesn't matter how much a piece of paper cost as someone mentioned above.
For Recording the cops without their premission, that's another rule she broke, anyone can refused to get the photos/video taken in the public, that's what we call Street photography rule. Even a reporter have to ask whether could show their face or not, as you normally see in the newspaper that most of the time their faces are in mosaic right if they do not wish to publish their faces. And she even put it on youtube which you can clearly see the cops, yell out loud their name etc.
On the other hand, the cops are not professional neither. If the cops are professional, they wouldn't try to argue with Pamela so much, they should just give her to sign the summon, when she refuse and pervert the course of justice(??????), they should give her back the IC etc and use a very serious manner ask her to go back to the police station for further investigation. If she refuse again, they should actually put the hand cuffs and bring her back to balai. As she Resisting arrest.
I hate police asking for bribe because I experienced it myself. So if Pamela experiencing this as well, she should report it to the Authority department but it doesn't menas she can manipulate the cops when they execute the proper procedure in the incident.
hmmm… can u guys stop with all this shit? i think you guys are one of the example of loyar-burok. just admit the fact that your journalist aka actress was wrong. she was the one who provoked the cops! are you guys blind? or pretending to be blind? come on! enough with this shit!
we need new stuff.
When LB editors take the time to issue an indirect "support" for Pamela, that is when we know they think Pamela is in the right. Much like how we the readers do not know what happened before the video started, the editors I assume would not either. However they are quick to jump to the conclusion that Pamela was indeed, as a woman, defending her rights and her fear of two men, not in proper uniform stopping her at the side of the road, and issuing her a summons.
I have watched the video over and over again, and I see nothing wrong with the police:-
1) pulling her to the side for flouting the "no using mobile phones when driving" rule. Holding your phone while on speaker is clearly an offence. And Pamela being a seasoned journalist, with a succinct knowledge of the Red Book and her rights (which she reminded all of us throughout the video) , should understand the term HANDS FREE. And if you commit that offence, there is no issue of "uncertain whether she committed an offence" or in her own words "did not consciously commit".
2) Taking her IC and particulars is clearly within the powers of the police. If indeed she were worried they were not policemen, she should not have stopped, but should have continued driving to the nearest police station to verify their identities. Instead, she stopped and then after much provocation by talking down to these policemen, then said she was "threatened" and "intimidated" by the two men.
3) the police was clearly of the opinion that this driver is aggressive and had asked her to follow them to the station. Why should she refuse if she were thought she had not committed an offence. Instead she said "ur stealing my ic right?" "Im going to make a police report you're stealing my ic" followed by BYE BYE BYE.
4) Should she has video-ed the whole exchange? I am glad she did. Because it goes to show, how the police are sometimes provoked into reacting the way they did. And Pamela alleged they had asked her for a bribe which there is no proof of in this video. And eventually, the summons were issued and she received it.
5) Can she write on the summons? It's much like being served with a Statement of Claim by the court, do we tell the process server, that here I am writing on the SOC that I DID NOT DO THIS. I DO NOT AGREE. No, you issue a defence in reply to the statement of claim. Hence, you receive the summons, and if you do not agree, you go to court to fight the summons. When you receive the summons, it is not an admission of guilt, hence there is no reason to write on the summons.
Lastly IGNORANCE OF THE LAW IS NO EXCUSE.
And LB having to issue this statement to say comments were racist, sexist and whatnot, shows that they too had already made up their minds about who was right, and who was wrong in that video.
And that is clearly disappointing to know.
Hi Cranberry,
What Pamela did has nothing to do with races. Just leave your races thingy comment behind.
What she has done (based on her owned video clip evidence she has posted) was simply been rude to the police officers. I bet she would have done the same thing to Chinese or Indian policeman.
Provoking the police is very similar like how PAMELA's uncle Lim Kit Siang's party members did 2 days before the 13 May 1969 where they taunt and jeered at the Malays back then.
You think the Malays do not feel slighted watching PAMELA behaving rudely to the POLICE and provoking them that way?
Where is your reason PAMELA? You are behaving just like NAMEWEE did in the anti TNB video he made. Crude and barbaric behavior.
You think that is proper for our culture? Get real CILZ. Get REAL Pamela. Get Real Jolene. And get lost Loyar Burok. You call yourself a lawyer? What a shame.
CILZ,
SO you think what PAM did was right? Let me scribble something on your face just like how Pamela did on to the policeman's work document.
You like ah? It's my human rights freedom also to scribble on your face?
No meh?
spot on, cilz! :)
it is most disturbing that a lawyer blog has so many uncouth followers. I hope they are not fellow lawyers who passed their bar exam because they KNEW SOMEBODY
I'm a firm supporter of freedom of speech. But really, the comments left by many were disgusting.
To those who have stooped so low to resort to name-calling and cursing Pam (which I find completely irrelevant), have some respect for yourself if not others. If you cannot manage a civilised productive discussion, crawl back into your cave where you shall stay happy and cozy, where your mindless rude comments shall be replied most appropriately – by your own echo.
Go back to school, maybe you will learn to have some class if not some brains.
@jk on 12 October, 2010 at 11:06 pm
red with no avatar and Red with avatar is not the same person. lol
PAMELA is just playing the victim because she HAS THE PENDATANG mentality.
If not, she wouldnt raise the pendatang issue.
If you are rude, donbt blame others to scold you.
PAMELA, you are rude. When people asked you not to take pictures of them, you should just listen to what they request. IT IS THEIR RIGHT NOT TO BE FILMED!!
PAMELA thinks she is right. But from the video, she really is wrong.
Double wrong dont make it right.
Scribbling onn other people's office document. Bodoh ka you Pamela?
What if I scribble something on your report paper?
You like ah?
Loyar Burok, why are you condoning PAMELA's actions? Are you having PENDATANG mentality as well?
You made series of articles defending her now. You are equally rude.
Please approve this comment.
Dear Pamela,
Yes, the comments were hurtful, offensive and some are downright racist and I condemn these comments in the strongest of terms.
But I wonder why you decided to bring up the 'pendatang' issue.
"In a country where I'm viewed in the same light as a “pendatang” (illegal immigrant) & accused of having an ancestry of prostitutes, I ought to be wary of every encounter with anyone who come across to me in such a manner."
and
"For those who think I shouldn’t be a citizen of Malaysia, you ought to know that I am the descendent of Malaya’s first court interpreter, Peter Lim & can trace back four generations in Malaysia."
These I think were totally un-called for.
Why did you have to bring race into the issue?
I know, Ahmad Ismail called you non-Malays pendatang. I know, the BTN director allegedly called Chinese "Si Sepet". Yes, the headmistress in Johor spewed racist venom.
But not all Malays are that like that, you know.
And for you to immediately view these two policeman as someone who sees you as a pendatang simply because of their ethnicity, that to me is racial prejudice on your part.
Yes, some of the commentators made it racial. But you did not have to resort to that.
am not a big fan of how she conducted herself, but like a previous commenter said, it's not illegal to be rude.
still, why the huge backlash against her? would no one else in the same situation like to know their alleged offence if stopped by the police? everyone fine with the police constantly haranguing for bribes?
"SHE INTIMIDATED THE POLICE."
and this is just rich. i'm sure two armed policemen were quaking in their boots after she spoke english and whipped out her video camera.
this is bullshit.. if u didnt expect such comment, dont write the article in the first place.. its just like u are giving away a meat to a bunch of hungry tigers but u told them not to eat the meat.. lmao.. if u cant take the troll, dont be a troll.. u're a troll urself and u're feeding trolls out there with ur troll.. understand that
I am appalled that many malaysians can't converse in Bahasa Melayu.
Being rude is not a punishable offence, but it is still morally offensive and she will get what she deserves.
instead of calling each other names, perhaps we should try to asnwer the good questions raised by Sam and KF Chan.
ORANG MINYAK, why are you giving Pamela be mugged as an example. why don't we use your mother being raped as an example. Lets hope is does not, but if the unfortunate happens do you think the police will be capable to capture the culprit. even if they do, thy will get bribe and let them off the hook.
Irrelevant whether she committed offence or not. Police acted like thugs.
If you happen to chk any of the malay sites, wht would you expect. Thy would blindly defend the legal gangsters….another point, if we blindly sign as insisted by the gangsters, if would only mean we admit out mistake. If we did not do any mistake why should we, if the gansters Threaten us to sign we are not wrong to remark as such on summons. And I always wonder whre is the ID number i don't see it in their uniform. on second thought wht can you expect from malaysian legal gansters aka POLICE it is just another HIGHLY CORRUPTED, INCOMPETENT, MALAY ONLY, NON-ENGLISH SPEAKING, VIOLENT ARM OF UMNO.
"But there is something that I must say to my people, who stand on the warm threshold which leads into the palace of justice: In the process of gaining our rightful place, we must not be guilty of wrongful deeds. Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred. We must forever conduct our struggle on the high plane of dignity and discipline. We must not allow our creative protest to degenerate into physical violence. Again and again, we must rise to the majestic heights of meeting physical force with soul force."
Dr. Martin Luther King Jnr.
"Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred." … and might I add, SELF-RIGHTEOUSNESS, ARROGANCE, PRIDE, DECEIT, FALSEHOOD…
I wondered if most Malaysian can be clear minded.
My observation:
1. She sounded rude and patronizing.
2. She videoed the Police without permission.
3. She scribbled on the Police's summon.
4. The Police took her license and IC and want her to follow them back to balai.
*******************************
1. There is nothing illegal about being rude. Which law says a citizen needs to be polite to the police? Citizens paid taxes. Police draws their salary from the taxes. Police are servants. Though no one likes a rude person, it is not a punishable offence.
2. Is it an offence to use your video camera in the privacy of your own car in public location? Maybe someone can tell us the law governing the usage of video camera. But please don't bring in examples of using video camera in the cinema. A cinema is a private business establishment. They have rights to forbid based on their terms and conditions.
3. I'm not sure which law can a person be charged for scribbling on the Police's summon. Destroying government properties? If it is, then charge her for that. I like to see how a judge would punished her for destroying a piece of paper that cost 5 cents.
4. But for the Police to confiscate your license and IC, threatened someone to follow them back to balai is definitely intimidation. If it is an arrestable offence, then state the reason and arrest her officially. Otherwise, are the Police breaking the LAW and committing an offence by withholding someone's IC. Furthermore, IT IS AN OFFENCE to drive without a valid driving license. So, how can the Police ask a citizen to break the law by driving to the balai without a license. (I assume they meant her to follow them back driving her own car). If they want her to leave her car at the road side, it will be another illegal parking offence.
It may just be a simple case of the Police breaking and abusing the law against a citizen.
You brought up good arguments, Sam. I'm totally with you on this.
At least now I can sleep in peace and not wonder where have all the sensible objective Malaysians gone to. For a long scary moment I thought they have ALL migrated :D
I have no sympathy for Pamela; I do hope she will get additional fines for intimidating the police..If I were the policeman.. I will give warning to Pamela not to take the picture…If she ignored my warning twice..I will grabbed her handphone; handcuffed her and bawa balai..balai sana cerita loh…
Next time if you get mugged; don't look for the police ;ok? Tell the mugger; you are intimidating and try to take video of the mugger.. publish this in you-tube and gain some symphaty..
Bodoh punya orang!
Sad that this keeps going on and on. I commented yesterday thus:
Shocking, rude, tangential, one-sided and unnecessary venomous racial comments. The issue is not about arrogance or intimidation. They are just perceptions. The video should be seen for the SERIOUS questions it raises:
1 How come a cop on duty doesn’t display any PDRM insignia on the uniform or helmet?
2 Is it REALLY illegal to film anyone outside the privacy of the home? How about Karam Singh and all those journos? How about those surveillance tapes handed in as evidence in court regarding false insurance claims, unfaithful husbands? Anyone got sued/charged over the Mavi Marmara videos?
3 Is it REALLY illegal to refuse verbal invitation to the balai for undisclosed purpose?
3 Can cops legally withhold a genuine IC/licence?
4 If that summon was REALLY genuine, shouldn’t they have immediately arrested her for conteng?
5 Cops are human too, but aren’t each of them TRAINED to handle cocky, arrogant even verbally abusive road offenders before being let loose on the streets?
6 In 2010, why is a Malaysian driver who is cool enough to shoot a cop at point blank with her handphone, yet is unable (unwilling?) to carry on a conversation with them in BM?
7 How can someone be so well-versed in citizen's rights that she dares to ask, "Do you know what is intimidation?" but doesn't seem to understand that "hands-free" means "no holding with hands"?
Wish someone could throw a light on these issues.
Being a loyarburuk blog, I was hoping some legal eagle would help put things in perspective by giving clear references to the relevant regulations so that we can be further assured about the CORRECT procedures. Alas, most folks seem bent on either whacking Pam or whacking the "cops".
Gentlemanly response anyone?
redNo Gravatar on 12 October, 2010 at 10:47 pm <–is this the same red that commenting numbers of comment before, bcoz i noticed he had an avatar..
Oh and another thing, YOU ARE ALREADY WRONG WHEN YOU USE SPEAKER WHILE ANOTHER HAND HOLDING IT!! How can you write on their summon book? The government invested the power to policeman and that book is their tool for their job. You are not the police, i admit that they are stupid and being idiot for not learning english at young age. But i understand their meaning WHO ARE YOU = are you the police? They are not professional so are you =) they are wrong for holding your licence so are you writing in the summon book. Sorry for being so offensive but you need to know what you are wrong in and don`t ( i`m not saying you are denying) think that you are still in the right position.
whoa.. twisting facts now are we? No one said anything about it being wrong for police to check our ID and driver's license. It is only wrong when they don't return it after checking that it is valid and to record the number.
thatnks, b, for revealing that most of the comments are from the same person.
You got so much time to create this cheap shot diversion from the fact that Pamela is clearly wrong. Why not talk about why she had to mention about the pendatang nonsense? Why not talk about how she is Malaysian but can't speak the national language? Why not talk about why she is a lawyer and yet didn't know she shouldn't scribble on the summon? I'd rather have her answer these questions than read this irrelevant sexual violence crap of yours which was not introduced in regards to the video until you brought it up anyway.
This is us, Malaysian, exercising our 'rights'! HAK RAKYAT BEB, takkan dah sentap??. Jelas2 dia nak buat isu, cis, aku pun boleh pergi buat masalah, siap polis tumbuk aku pun boleh kalau nak. Pastu post kat Youtube. Tapi untuk apa? Memalukan negara sendiri.
agrees entirely with 'a'.
And no, we are not the same person posting. She deserved this, no pity for one who is utterly rude and disgusting in behavior. shame on her.
moderating comments now are we? :)might as well disable if u cant take what ppl think. IMHO.
U know there's a thing call manners.
Pamela is just plain rude.
You can try to manipulate this situation. And yes, there are some people STUPID enough to make it a racial issue, a gender bias issue.
Well you can try make up a lot of excuses and claims for it.
But at the end of the day, SHE WAS JUST PLAIN RUDE.
SHE INTIMIDATED THE POLICE.
Quote Pamela "u marah i, marah lah?" <- in a provoking tone. if she was murdered, the police probably wud use the defense of provocation.
Babe, after this, if you go to the movies, or any other place which prohibits taking photos, please record it too, and bitch at the ppl there abt your right to film k. it'd be awesome!
just look at the tags below this entry – civil society, harassment, intimidation, police, verbal violence, violence against women. 4 out of 6 are actually very judgmental and value loaded tags in itself. if the editors think that malaysians should have been more civil in their comments, then they should start with themselves first.
being flagged down by the police or jpj is a normal thing on our roads and a very normal thing to do too is to stop the car, say selamat pagi or salam or whatever and ask, 'ada apa-apa masalah encik'? such simple gestures will put everybody on professional footings and peaceful mood.
i don't think pamela did those normal things in the first place. in fact, from the video, i think she did just the opposite, i.e being confrontational, abusive and bent on showing whose the boss from the onset, and thus such a reaction from the two very junior policemen – who are actually very intimidated and scared themselves. the fact that one of them tried speaking in english – 'we are good malaysian' – and then shy away when pamela ask her a question in english showed how intimidated they were.
but pamela pushed her luck too far when she scribbled something on the summons form. what the hell she was thinking then? to challenge those policemen? to prove that she is innocent? to show how scared and intimidated she was? to say that she's the boss and can do whatever she wants?
she should consider herself lucky and be thankful to the two policemen for not pursuing the issue. they could have radio-in a police tow truck and a vehicle to take her and her car to the police station for many other offences other than talking on the phone while driving, including destroying public property!
there are bad cops and there many a good ones. don't be too judgmental and speak bahasa malaysia please, you'll be understood better.
lastly, i also think that pamela lim is just trying to become another namewee – free publicity, this time by demonising the cops. very cheap indeed.
Maaflah, rakyat Malaysia masih terlampau baru dengan 'kebebasan bersuara'. Seperti juga Pamela, mereka menganggap ini hak mereka. Adil tak?
was there a racial element in the clip? if there was, i didn't see it. but Pamela really didn't have to bring up the 'pendatang' comment when elaborating on her video in the follow up post.
i can't speak for her, but thinking out loud, she was probably coerced in touching the subject judging from all the comments she got for talking so rudely to the cops (you guys have to admit, she WAS rude).
granted, some comments were very uncalled for – i feel sorry for you, Pam to have to read them (but isn't this not the ONLY loyar burok article with such hooligans?). taking from where st0rmfury left off – that's what you get when there's anonymousity, i suppose. you're right, Jo-lene. it is a shame.
all those comments.. could it be that the public just couldn't help but miss the whole point of the video when it was handled so badly by the author? (truth be told, i still don't get the point of that video – "police intimidation"? where?)
do enlighten me.
Aston Paiva
What’s even more startling is how Pamela seems to be branded a racist just because she might have used a different language or stood up for herself before two people of a different ethnicity
St0rmFury
If you think the comments here are bad, wait till you read the comments posted at the youtube video and other Malay supremacist sites. I guess the advantage of being anonymous only served to embolden the many closet bigots and extremists in our country.
Me thinks that when Pamela made the second submissions highlighting the pendatang issue and prostitutes heritage from the motherland that is being racists.
Ever wonder that these policemen are coaxing her to bribe them so that the've another reason to summon her. Just to keep informed, policemen nowadays are given incentives towards their number of summonses they issue and this serves as criteria for their promotion.
Give this issue a break, there are more hardcore criminals that got away scotsfree just because they can hire good lawyers.
how stupid can people get.i am not malay and i stil cant see what wrong the cops did.of course you have to hand over your identification documents in order for them to issue summons.she was provoking them.either you people are blind or pretending to be blind.so what if she was a woman?that gives her the right to provoke the cops?what if the clip was from peter and not pamela……?so its ok for a woman to get away with anything?people….go get a life.by the way,it takes ne racist to know another.
totally agree with you guys. i couldn't see the racism bit entering the scene.
althought I did view the video twice and did wonder about what happened in the beginning before the video recording. But even without the background, the police showed a lack of profesionalism in my opinion. If Pamela commited an offence, give her the summon and go. Why the need to retain her personal particulars? Why the need to ikut pergi balai?
As for the uncalled for online abuse, why the need for name calling? If you MUST make a personal attack, do back it up with reason. We're not a bunch of preteens in a school backyard.
Ah yes, in my hurry and rage to address the violence I forgot to address the racism bit, thank you. I totally did not know where that came from. A comment at WayangLoyarBurok said the video incites racial hatred… if anything I dare say neither the police nor Pamela displayed any hints of racism.
If you think the comments here are bad, wait till you read the comments posted at the youtube video and other Malay supremacist sites. I guess the advantage of being anonymous only served to embolden the many closet bigots and extremists in our country.
I agree with you Jo-Lene.
What's even more startling is how Pamela seems to be branded a racist just because she might have used a different language or stood up for herself before two people of a different ethnicity.
If the comments section of Pamela's posts are representative of the average Malaysian's attitude towards other citizens and authority, then I must say it's no wonder why this country, after 50 years, is only sliding further into the gutter.